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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : "To Be Absent from the Body is to be Present with the Lord"

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TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5390
NC, USA

 "To Be Absent from the Body is to be Present with the Lord"

I will give a major award to anyone who can find where the Bible says this.

Might be a trick question though ;)


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Todd

 2014/3/20 7:37Profile
enid
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Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2664
Nottingham, England

 Re: "To Be Absent from the Body is to be Present with the Lord"

What's the award?

 2014/3/20 8:47Profile
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3238
Texas

 Re: "To Be Absent from the Body is to be Present with the Lord"

If this is true, it would have a person wondering about all the folks that say they died and went to Heaven, and experienced seeing Jesus and relatives, but God sent them back.


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Mr. Bill

 2014/3/20 8:48Profile
rainydaygirl
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Joined: 2008/10/27
Posts: 742


 Re: "To Be Absent from the Body is to be Present with the Lord"

by TMK on 2014/3/20 7:37:16

I will give a major award to anyone who can find where the Bible says this.

Might be a trick question though ;__

i could post a really great teaching by Jonathon Edwards that speaks to this topic but then i remembered your not a fan of copy and paste long articles so i thought better of it. (smile)

rdg

 2014/3/20 9:21Profile
MrBillPro
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Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3238
Texas

 Re:

rainydaygirl, if it's on the net, you could just post a link. I am with TMK I am not a fan of the long copy and paste either, links are so much better and also takes away the possibility of a missing line or two with a cut and paste.


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Mr. Bill

 2014/3/20 9:27Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:


".... prefer rather to be absent from the body and to be at home with the Lord." 1 Cor. 5:8 NASV

What's my reward now???

Diane


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Diane

 2014/3/20 9:32Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

TRUE SAINTS, WHEN ABSENT FROM THE BODY, ARE PRESENT WITH THE LORD
http://www.jonathan-edwards.org/AbsentBody.html

Link to the Jonathan Edwards article. Caution: It's a long article!


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Diane

 2014/3/20 9:33Profile
twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 2002
Joplin, Missouri

 Re: "To Be Absent from the Body is to be Present with the Lord"

TMK: Interestingly enough, my wife and I were discussing this very scripture not 48 hours ago. And, you are right. The scripture, as you quoted it, is not in the Bible.

2Co 5:5-11
(5) Now he that hath wrought us for the selfsame thing is God, who also hath given unto us the earnest of the Spirit.
(6) Therefore we are always confident, knowing that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from the Lord:
(7) (For we walk by faith, not by sight:)
(8) We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.
(9) Wherefore we labour, that, whether present or absent, we may be accepted of him.
(10) For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.
(11) Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, we persuade men; but we are made manifest unto God; and I trust also are made manifest in your consciences.

As I look at Paul's statement, I am reminded of this passage:

Php 1:22-25
(22) But if I live in the flesh, this is the fruit of my labour: yet what I shall choose I wot not.
(23) For I am in a strait betwixt two, having a desire to depart, and to be with Christ; which is far better:
(24) Nevertheless to abide in the flesh is more needful for you.
(25) And having this confidence, I know that I shall abide and continue with you all for your furtherance and joy of faith;

Paul is making a very similar statement in both cases, that he would rather depart from the body and be present with the Lord. Paul's desire to be absent from the body and present with the Lord is something I think we all desire. I know I desire it, for I am looking forward to the day that I stand forever in His presence. But this verse does not say specifically that the moment we are absent from the body that we are present with the Lord. But I think there is other scriptures that comes into play here.

Ecc 12:7
(7) Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Rev 6:9-11
(9) And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
(10) And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
(11) And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.

One has to be careful about using Ecclesiastes for an absolute doctrinal statement, but as it agrees with what we find in the book of Revelation, I have included it. We see the spirits (or souls) of believers returning to God and around the throne before the resurrection and glorification of the body. So it does appear that when a person dies, at least a believer, that the spirit does return to the father and that he is in a totally conscious state (being who we are yet totally in the spiritual body if you will) and is with the Father.

My discussion with my wife concerned what happens to an unbeliever upon physical death. I do not see that they can go immediately to hell, as they have not passed through the final judgement at which they are declared guilty and their sentence is pronounced.

Believe it or not, many in the foundations of the pentecostal movement of the early 1900's believed in soul-sleep for all who die until the day of judgement. Not that this should be an issue. If the dead really do know nothing (again, it is not a good idea to try to make strong doctrinal statements from Ecclesiastes), or if they are immediately with the Lord is a bit irrelevant since to the dead, both transitions would seem to be instantaneous. So perhaps there is a difference between what happens when a person dies in sin or in Christ.

I know some have tried to use the parable of Jesus about the man who died and went to Abraham's bosom and peered across a gulf at those in torment as a doctrinal commentary on death, but I do not believe that scripture can be used that way any more than parable of the good Samaritan could be used to teach that Samaritans are right with God because they help persecuted Jews, if you see what I am saying. The point of the parable of the man who died is that the Jews would not accept salvation by faith in the Messiah even though one of them rose from the dead. It was a commentary on the refusal of the Jews to accept their Messiah. The rest of the story was the setup that led to the punchline.

So I would say that when a believer dies, his spirit goes to be with the Father, and that, according to Revelation, he is cognizant, yet not united with his glorified body. But Paul's statement in 2 Cor. is not the verse that can be used to verify this belief.




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Travis

 2014/3/20 10:22Profile









 Re: Diane

Dear sister I think you meant 2 Cor. 5:8. Not 1 Cor. 5:8. But that is alright. You still get the award.:) Whatever it is.

By the way you probably should gave quoted from the KJV. Seems according to Proud Papa and others we are using inferior translations that demons will nit submit to.:)

Glad you are posting again. Always enjoy reading them and your insights.

Blaine

 2014/3/20 10:32
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5390
NC, USA

 Re:

I appreciate your post twayneb.

You got what I was driving at. The verse as quoted in my subject line does not exist. Paul just says he would rather be absent from the body and be present with The Lord. There is a significant but subtle difference.

The idea of "soul sleep" for those who believe in at least a bipartate nature of man or the idea that a person is just dead until the resurrection has never really bothered me even if they are correct.

That is because when I die the very next thing I experience will be the presence of The Lord. It doesn't matter if it is immediate or if 2 million years go by because my dead brain would have no sense of time passing.

That being said I of hope and believe that my spirit/soul will be with God immediately when I die.


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Todd

 2014/3/20 11:35Profile





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