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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Subject of healing

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 Re:

I sure do have kids and I teach them the truth. Your verses don't work in the physical because God is speaking about the spiritual. Jesus used our physical world in many parables to teach spiritual truths.

"How much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?"

Verse 13 tells us that His stripes healed us but we want to think that the most important thing that God is speaking about through Peter is physical healing when we know right well that not every born-again Christian gets healed physically. The Church has lost sight of spiritual healing.

13 If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?

You are an exact example of someone who sees God as a Santa Claus.

 2014/3/18 9:20
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7449
Mississippi

 Re:

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One thing that marks the healings of Jesus is the absence of the formula.
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This should be shouted from the housetops!

The most important thing is that God is more interested in our walk with him then anything else. Health is wonderful and if God chooses to afflict us one must learn from Him how he wants us to deal with it although James 5 teaches us one should call for the elders for anointing of oil.

Seems to me one is placing healing on a level that distracts us from a proper perception of God. I trust God for my health and have been richly blessed although he has not called a halt to the ageing process! We must be careful that we do not imbibe an entitlement mentality regarding the gifts and blessings from God just because we have accepted his plan of salvation. He will continue to chastise us, afflict us - using our health, sometimes - to perfect us.

My opinion.


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Sandra Miller

 2014/3/18 9:40Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3441
Louisiana

 Re:

There was much truth in the "Word of Faith" movement concerning faith and healing, but there was also a lot of error mixed in with it. So over the years as the Holy Spirit taught me concerning healing, I simply took hold of that which was of God and according to the Word and discarded the rest.

We are going to need faith for everything in the coming days, because we will have to walk by faith and not by sight just to survive. There will come a time when we won't be able to rely on doctors or the financial institutions of this world.

I agree with what many of you are saying that "faith is not a formula." That was one of the errors of many faith teachers that they taught a formula instead of a living relationship with Christ, who is our healer, and the one who meets all of our needs.

I don't like the term "name it and claim it", for all of the promises of God are yes and Amen in Christ. The believer should appropriate or lay claim to the promises of God, but this is not done through some legalistic formula. If we are abiding in Christ and His Word is living in us, then the Word is clear that we can ask what we will and it shall be done unto us. How can God give us a blank check like that? Those that are abiding in Christ are those that are seeking first the Kingdom of God, and whatever they ask will be in line with the Word and the will of God. Those that are not abiding in Christ will many times be seeking things outside of the will of God.

The truth is that everything that we need in this life, spiritually, mentalally, and physically, is already in Christ. We are in Christ, and the riches of Christ are available for us. A man can live with just the bare necessities of life, but if he is in Christ, and he knows that Christ is living in Him, then he is a rich man. The Lord has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in heavenly places in Christ.

If we are obeying the commandments of Jesus, we will cease from seeking God selfishly, and we will love God first, and love our neighbor second, and allow Christ to live His life through us.

Mike


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Mike

 2014/3/18 13:57Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 1988
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

I think it is important that we use scripture to interpret scripture. Many say that Isaiah 53 regrets to spiritual healing, but Matthew's commentary shows clearly that the atonement clearly includes physical healing as well as salvation. And, while it is true that not all believers who are sick receive healing, that is not a commentary upon the meaning of the word of God, but rather a commentary upon us as people. Just because the WOF movement has misapplied some scripture and gone into a ditch in some areas, that does not mean that the opposite ditch is truth. We do receive from God by faith. God's will doors not automatically come to pass in our life simply because we are born again. For example, God may want me to go to a certain city and preach, but if I don't obey, Good does not supernaturally place me in that city and force me to speak. Likewise, healing may be provided, but if I don't receive it by faith, it won't happen barring the operation of a gift of the spirit. And, apart from a word of knowledge, I cannot know why you may not receive healing, so how can I be critical or judgemental.


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Travis

 2014/3/18 14:12Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5340
NC, USA

 Re:

The main proponents and teachers of healing as described by Psalm1 and others here still have physical issues and sometimes very serious ones.

So if the main proponents of this view of healing who know the most about it still can't always heal themselves or persons they pray for, how can anyone else expect to do so?

In other words it is a great theory and perhaps the theory may be true but if as a practical matter it just isn't possible to have that much faith or whatever, then what good is the theory?

I have heard teachers say that if you just have enough faith you could walk on water. But I am 99% certain that if you lined up all the Christians on earth none could walk on water regardless of their faith unless the water is frozen of course.

I used to believe just like psalm1 and others and listened to tons of teaching by Andrew wommack (who I really like) and bill Johnson etc but in my experience and those who followed the same teachings with me was that it just didn't work as a practical matter.

Now you might say that it was because I didn't have enough faith or that my understanding was not just right, but that just proves my point. I know of no one who is at that level.

That being said, like I said before I do believe in taking authority and commanding sickness to leave. To me that is just a better and more effective way to pray.


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Todd

 2014/3/18 14:38Profile
yuehan
Member



Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 510


 Re:

AbideinHim,

Quote:
"There was much truth in the "Word of Faith" movement concerning faith and healing, but there was also a lot of error mixed in with it."



Can you share some of the truths you gleaned from the movement?



 2014/3/18 15:16Profile









 Re:

Quote:
by twayneb on 2014/3/18 14:12:39

I think it is important that we use scripture to interpret scripture. Many say that Isaiah 53 regrets to spiritual healing, but Matthew's commentary shows clearly that the atonement clearly includes physical healing as well as salvation.



It is not so much that the atonement includes physical healing, but that it is available from the Living God. Is there anything too hard for Him?

It was available in Exodus 15 from the Living God, apart from the atonement. Healing from the Living God is and has always been available. Look at all the stories in the OT.

Quote:
And, while it is true that not all believers who are sick receive healing, that is not a commentary upon the meaning of the word of God, but rather a commentary upon us as people.



I don't believe that. That is not necessarily the case. I think you mean "negative" commentary, not just commentary. It does not have to be a negative commentary upon us as a people. It was not a negative commentary upon Job that his family was destroyed, his possessions stolen, his family killed and that he was stricken with disease.

We should be very careful as a people not to judge those who have calamity in their lives. Maybe these calamities are for the church to learn compassion and mercy and how to comfort and pray. In God's mind, there could be a million reasons. Suffering and sickness are tools in God's hands, but we (understandably) want to run from them as fast as we can.

Quote:
And, apart from a word of knowledge, I cannot know why you may not receive healing, so how can I be critical or judgemental.



Well, amen!!

 2014/3/18 18:50
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3441
Louisiana

 Re:

"It is not so much that the atonement includes physical healing, but that it is available from the Living God. Is there anything too hard for Him?"

Brother, when you make a statement like this, you are taking away from the work of the cross. The atonement is the basis of all healing.

Mike


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Mike

 2014/3/18 19:36Profile
AbideinHim
Member



Joined: 2006/11/26
Posts: 3441
Louisiana

 Re:

"Can you share some of the truths you gleaned from the movement?"

Brother,

After I was saved and baptized in the Holy Spirit in the early 70'S, I spent most of my time in the Word of God. I sat under Word of faith teaching because of their strong emphasis on the Word of God. In the beginning of the faith movement there was not a strong emphasis on getting all you can and canning all that you could get. This happened later when the prosperity teaching took front and center.

The failure of the Word of faith movement was a failure to teach discipleship and the work of the cross in the life of a believer. If our lives fully belong to God, then all that we have comes from Him and is His.

God will bless some with financial prosperity, but His purpose is not so that they can live high on the hog. God's blessing is for the work of the Kingdom.

Mike


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Mike

 2014/3/18 19:51Profile









 Re:

Quote:
by AbideinHim on 2014/3/18 19:36:44

"It is not so much that the atonement includes physical healing, but that it is available from the Living God. Is there anything too hard for Him?"

Brother, when you make a statement like this, you are taking away from the work of the cross. The atonement is the basis of all healing.

Mike



Brother, if you think I am taking away from the Cross, then you don't see the Cross in the OT as a type and shadow. I am not taking away from the Cross because healing existed from the hand of God in the OT. You are just in abject denial if you ignore all the healing in the OT.

There is much healing in the OT. Even a raising from the dead.

The people in the OT did not have to wait for the cross for God react to faith.

Psa 103:2-3 Bless the LORD, O my soul, and forget not all his benefits: Who forgiveth all thine iniquities; who healeth all thy diseases;

Psa 107:20 He sent his word, and healed them, and delivered them from their destructions.

But the most important thing Mike, is that the type and shadow of the cross (faith) exists throughout the OT.

Num 21:6-9 And the LORD sent fiery serpents among the people, and they bit the people; and much people of Israel died. Therefore the people came to Moses, and said, We have sinned, for we have spoken against the LORD, and against thee; pray unto the LORD, that he take away the serpents from us. And Moses prayed for the people. And the LORD said unto Moses, Make thee a fiery serpent, and set it upon a pole: and it shall come to pass, that every one that is bitten, when he looketh upon it, shall live. And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole, and it came to pass, that if a serpent had bitten any man, when he beheld the serpent of brass, he lived.

Jesus begins to reveal Himself in Numbers 21.

After God's judgment of fiery serpents, men could look in repentance to their sin to the pole with the fiery serpent on it and live.

Again, this is another spiritual reality given to us by a physical event. And the spiritual reality is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord who was "lifted up" on the Cross.

I think the failure of the Word of Faith movement was to teach the deeper life in the Spirit of walking with Christ and overcoming. Instead, they chose to teach a superficial, physical related message.

 2014/3/18 20:21





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