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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Subject of healing

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DEADn
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Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 Subject of healing

The subject of healing becomes muddy waters for me and I think it is because of my exposure to Word of Faith teaching from the past plus a friend who passed away who was hardcore WOF as well. I was recently in an online discussion with someone on healing and they said some things that I don't quite agree with yet I don't really know what is true when it comes to healing from God v. going to the doctor. I want to provide some comments from this person and tell me what your opinion is on his view from a biblical critique. I need my psyche and heart reset in this area or at least put forth in the right direction.

Quote:

I think what is going on here is that you want to "see" the healing take place for then being able to believe it...you need to change your approach, and here is how:
Let's take the groin injury you have...you feel the pain and you BELIEVE you are not healed because of that. The "physical" is dictating what you "believe". Wipe all that away, and now BELIEVE that you are HEALED in JESUS' NAME, the healing has already occurred, it just hasnt manifested in the natural yet, but it has occurred.
Also change the way you speak...Dont say "I have a groin pull", but rather say "I have the SYMPTOMS of a groin pull".
By faith we are healed, we only get excited when the healing manifests in the natural, but instead we should already believe we are healed before that.
I dont care if i have symptoms of a headache, I am healed in the name of Jesus. I dont care if I have symtoms of arthritis, I am healed in the name of Jesus, etc etc
Also go to a physician, physicians have their place too, they can diagnose and cure within the physical realm. We do what we gotta do in the spiritual as well as in the natural



This talk sounds alot like Word of Faith talk and even border line Christian Science, in the denial of the sickness/injury part. To me faith is being prostituted in this persons words.

And then there was a follow up even to this post

Quote:

HEY YOUNG MAN, OF GOD LOOK, I HEAR U HAVE THE SAME DEALIN' WITH UR GROWNIN' AREA. WELL I HAD THE SAME DEALIN' BACK 2YEARS WHEN I WAS SQUATTIN' IN MY GROWIN' AREA.

HERE IS WHAT I DID AND SAID.

1. I THANKED JESUS FOR MY HEALIN'

2. I CLAMED MY HEALIN' AND LAYED HANDS IN THAT AREA OF MY BOD WITH (name omitted) ALSO LAYIN' HIS HANDS ON ME AT THE SAME TIME

3. WE BOTH TOTALLY AGREED THAT I WAS AND AM TOTALLY HEALED IN THAT AREA AND WE BELIEVED AND NEVER WEAVERED FROM THAT.

NOW IT TOOK 2WEEKS YET I STILL DID MY QUADS AND I USED VERY LIGHT WEIGHTS UNTIL IT WAS TOTALLY GONE.

SEE JESUS TOOK ALL SICKNESS AND PAIN AND OTHER TYPES OF SICKNESS, WAY BEFORE WE EVER GOT SICK.

SEE JESUS TOLD US TO BELIEVE BY FAITH AND (name omitted) AND ME BOTH TOTALLY BELIEVED AND STILL BELIEVE, AND NOW WE R WAY PASS THE BELIEVIN'. WE R IN THE KNOWIN' THAT WE R AND STAY TOTALLY HEALED IN JESUS' NAME.



Are their words true to form in how we should approach healing and healing miracles before God? Have they taken things out of context?

btw, This is from a weightlifting site and I mentioned that I have groin pull that affects me when I run for the first 5 minutes. I think I got it from doing the ab wheel a few months ago.

John


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John

 2014/3/14 13:05Profile
TMK
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Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5339
NC, USA

 Re: Subject of healing

God heals when He wishes, and that is not always—obviously, since He has declined to heal millions of trusting Christians throughout history, who were looking to Him for healing. What, in their circumstances, could possibly have prevented Him from healing, if He had wished to do so?

If a person answers that it is always a matter of faith or lack thereof, I would have to say, "Wait till you have been around longer before making such absurd and uncharitable judgments against suffering people." I know of more than one person die of cancer while faithfully confessing, to their last breath, "by His stripes I am healed!" They never wavered in their faith that God would heal them. If their faith was not good enough, what hope can any of us have of having "the right amount" of faith?"

All that being said I do indeed believe that we should exercise our authority when praying for healing even to the point of commanding sickness to leave in Jesus' name. That is how the apostles prayed. I know for a fact that for me at least I have had much better success with this approach than when I used to pray "please heal so and so if it be Your will." To me that is a cop out escape clause. If God does not heal the person then obviously it was not his will. But it weakens my prayer to the consistency of thin gruel if I throw that phrase in there.

That's my initial two cents.


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Todd

 2014/3/14 14:21Profile
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Joined: 2012/2/8
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 Re:

One more thing... Bill Johnson wears glasses (why??) and some of the founders of the WOF movement are dead.


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Todd

 2014/3/14 14:24Profile
yuehan
Member



Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 510


 Re: Subject of healing

Hi John,

I can relate a testimony of my mum's friend on healing, and I know it to be true. She had foot problems for many years - I don't really know the specifics, but it gave her pain and she could only wear sandals (if I recall correctly). She had sought medical advice in different countries, but to no avail.

One day, she decided to speak out loud that her foot problems were not of God. She would pointedly say to the foot, "This is not of God, this is not of God." She did this every day, and some weeks later her foot was miraculously healed - to her surprise.

So what are the lessons we should draw from this testimony? Is this vindication for "Word of Faith" doctrines?

I believe God honours trust in Him, and God chose to intervene in that lady's situation and bless her .

She laid hold of a truth - that her foot problems were not of God. Whether there was healing or not, it was a truth which deserved assertion. As she was surprised by the outcome, I suppose she wasn't reciting it in a formulaic way to obtain healing.

I believe a substantial of the Christian journey is learning to trust God regardless of the outcome. All truths deserve assertion, but God cannot be manipulated via 'formulas' to obtain specific ends.








 2014/3/14 15:13Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 Re:

I am wondering if this thing called healing is an organic thing. Sometimes a person will call out the healing and eventually God heals. Other times God will instill faith into a persons heart to believe for their healing or even someone else's healing and it will happen. But then in other cases it doesn't happen and we just don't know why.

Would anyone agree with this scenario?


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John

 2014/3/14 15:22Profile
yuehan
Member



Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 510


 Re: Subject of healing

As for seeking medical help, I do know people who do not take medicine and trust God for healing.

Personally, I see modern medicine and medical personnel as blessings from God. God can certainly render help to us in many ways. As much as God honours faith in Him, we can't dictate how He answers our prayers.

Perhaps I can bring up the example of John Sung (Chinese evangelist): there were many signs and wonders, including healings, which followed his ministry. But when he was bedridden and ill towards the end of his life, he didn't refuse medical assistance either. This is a pretty decent biography of him: http://www.amazon.com/Biography-John-Sung-Leslie-Lyall/dp/9814138193

 2014/3/14 15:29Profile
yuehan
Member



Joined: 2011/6/15
Posts: 510


 Re:

//DEADn: "I am wondering if this thing called healing is an organic thing. Sometimes a person will call out the healing and eventually God heals. Other times God will instill faith into a persons heart to believe for their healing or even someone else's healing and it will happen. But then in other cases it doesn't happen and we just don't know why.

Would anyone agree with this scenario?"//

I'm not sure what is meant by "organic" here. But God is certainly sovereign over the healing outcome, and we are to trust him regardless of the outcome (Hebrews 11:6). Trusting Him that He is who He says He is - that He loves you, is perfectly good and is always there for you... even if the situation doesn't seem to suggest that (from our limited and flawed human perception).

 2014/3/14 15:35Profile
leftbehind
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Joined: 2006/6/6
Posts: 41


 Re:

The modern “healing movement” has had some fanaticism and some false doctrine. It is certainly not always God’s will to heal the sick now, as it was not in Bible times. Sometimes it is God’s will for people to be sick and so learn some lessons or receive some blessing or give some gracious testimony to God’s help in trouble. Sometimes Christians ought to die. And the doctors and medicines are not wrong. God more usually uses means to heal people, just as He even uses human means and testimony in getting out the gospel and in saving souls. But making allowance for heresies and fanaticism, which we do not endorse, it is still true that God today sometimes miraculously intervenes to heal the sick. Dr. John Rice

 2014/3/15 8:09Profile
leftbehind
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Joined: 2006/6/6
Posts: 41


 Re:

HEALTH, WEALTH AND HAPPINESS:
HAS THE PROSPERITY GOSPEL OVERSHADOWED THE GOSPEL OF CHRIST?
DR. DAVID JONES, PHD, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary
DR. RUSSELL S. WOODBRIDGE, PHD, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary

Every day on radio or TV there’s a gospel being proclaimed—the gospel of prosperity. The gospel teaches that God wants to fulfill our every desire for health, wealth, and happiness, and all it takes is sufficient faith. The preachers of prosperity tout their own opulent lifestyles as proof of their message: God wants His children to have it all. IS this the gospel? Or is it is just a feel-good, self-centered appeal to our materialistic impulses that omits the message of Jesus and the cross? The Bible has plenty to say about wealth and possessions, but those teachings are routinely twisted out of context or carelessly misinterpreted. . Authors David W. Jones and Russell S. Woodbridge go back to the Scriptures to set forth a truly biblical understanding of wealth, poverty, suffering and giving. They identify five crucial areas of error related to the prosperity gospel movement. Health, Wealth, and Happiness challenges readers to rediscover the true gospel of Jesus.
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Over the years however, the message preached in some of the largest churches in the world has changed. A new gospel is being taught today. This new gospel is perplexing—it omits Jesus and neglects the cross. Instead of promising Christ, the gospel promises health and wealth, and offers advice such as: declare to yourself that everything that you touch will prosper, for, in the words of a leading prosperity gospel preacher, “There is a miracle in your mouth”. According to this new gospel, if believers repeat positive confessions, focus their thoughts and generate enough faith, God will release blessings upon their lives. This new gospel claims that God desires and even promises that believers will live a healthy and financially prosperous life.
This is the core message of what is known as the prosperity gospel. This gospel has been given many names, such as the “name it and claim it” gospel, the “blab it and grab it” gospel, the “health and wealth” gospel, the “word of faith” movement, the “gospel of success,” “positive confession theology,” and as this book will refer to it, the “prosperity gospel.” No matter what name is used, the teaching is the same. This egocentric gospel teaches that God wants believers to be materially prosperous in the here-and-now. Robert Tilton, one of the prosperity gospel’s most well-known spokesman, writes,”I believe that it is the will of God for all to prosper because I see it in the word [of God], not because it has worked mightily for someone else. I do not put my eyes on men, but on God who gives me the power to get wealth.”
Without question, the prosperity gospel continues to grown and influence Christians. Fifty of the largest two hundred sixty churches in the United States promote the prosperity gospel. The pastors of some of the largest churches in America proclaim the prosperity gospel, including Kenneth Copeland, T.D. Jakes, Joel Osteen, Frederick Price, Creflo Dollar, Kenneth Hagin Jr., and Eddie Long. Through the internet, television, and radio, the prosperity gospel reaches millions around the world everyday. …”American lifestyles have led African believers to equate Christian faith with wealth”. Influenced by American affluence and prosperity, native preachers readily take up the message of the prosperity gospel. Additionally, American prosperity teachers export their message on television networks such as the Trinity Broadcasting Network, one of the most watched religious stations of the world. … hypocrisy of prosperity gospel….self-centered bent of the prosperity message.
Ex:
Eventually, Quimby claimed to have developed his own clairvoyant hyptnotist. Powers and became a successful hypnotist. Quimby believed that sickness follows a disturbance of the minds; therefore, disease is really mental and the cure is to correct false reasoning or error in the mind. Quimby asserts, “If I believe I am sick, I am sick, for my feelings are my sickness, and my sickness is my belief, and my belief is my mind. Therefore, all disease is in the mind or belief”. … Wallace Wattles: “Whatever may be said in praise of poverty, the fact remains that it is not possible to live a really complete or successful life unless one is rich.” In these New Thought works, one can discern some of the key recurring elements of the prosperity gospel: speaking the right words, invoking a universal law of success with words, and having faith in oneself. …no mention of sin, repentance, or the gospel…
Norman Vincent Peale: The Power of Positive Thinking, Guide to Confident Living, In the Tough-Minded Optimist. (He quotes metaphysical teachers…. Salvation is a self-generated mystical experience with the infinite, which entails channeling the divine influx for personal health, wealth, happiness and success.
The Foundations of the Prosperity Gospel
The prosperity gospel is built upon a quasi-Christian heresy, popular in the late 19th and early 20th century, known as New Thought
Key New Thought thinkers include Emanuel Swedenborg, Phineas Quimby, Ralph Waldo Trine and Norman Vince Peale.
New Thought is marked by a distorted view of God, an elevation of mind over matter, an exalted view of humankind, a focus upon attaining health and wealth, and an unorthodox view of salvation.
Distorted view of God: Jesus as just a prophet. Pantheism. Lack of Trinity. Jesus falsely as an impersonal force or creative energy field. “New Thought” teachers and pastors. Problems with Napoleon Hill, Charles Fillmore. Occultist nature of thoughts.
Problems with these quotes by “New Thought” advocates: “directed toward positive thoughts and success will become a reality” and “visualize what you want and meditate upon the picture, and you will create it in reality”. Problems with Charles Haanel and law of attraction.
An Elevated View of Humankind. Dr. Jones’ and Dr. Woodbridge’s definition of “New Thought”: “a human-centered philosophical asserts that people are intrinsically good, spiritual beings, with the potential for godlike—if not divine—status”.
Dr Jones and Dr. Woodbridge speaks on problem with “New Thought” advocates: “that humans can become gods, there is no mention of sin and redemption within New Thought. Since the proponents of this philosophy neither acknowledge the deity of Jesus not the inherent sinfulness of humanity, redemption is both impossible and unnecessary.” Problems with New Thought advocateS: Ernest Holmes, Walter Felt Evans.
Dr Jones and Dr. Woodbridge: “IF people are essentially gods, then what kind of redemption do they really need? In New Thought there is no place for a sinless Savior who died on the cross in order to have propitiation for sin. Humans can save themselves from their dire circumstances through using the divine energy in the universe. They are, after all, in control of their fate. Problem with Ernest Holmes: “IF we partake of the divine nature we must know the same thing in our lives that God knows is His. I am master of my fate, I am captain of my soul”. “New Thought’s belief in the deification of humans”
A Focus on Health, Wealth [and Happiness]. “New Thought proposes that people become sick because of negative thoughts or an account of the fact that they are not properly attuned to the Infinite [inferior]. People allow disease to enter their bodies, thus giving disease its power. The solution to illness is to think about being health and have faith that the law of attraction will work….mind over matter ”.
Problems with the following quotes by Quimby, Thomas Troward: “send out our Thought for the healing of disease, for the suggestion of good and happy ideas…”
An Elevation of Mind over matter: Definition of “New Thought”: The focus on the mind being the key to success. New Thought: Think a certain way and change reality. Problems with New Thought advocates: Henry Hamblin, Emanuel Swedenborg, Wattles, Napoleon Hill, Robert Collier.
Ex by Dr. Jones and Dr. Woodbride: “think about how devastating this philosophy can be to someone with cancer. According to New Thought, you are the reason you have cancer. According to New Thought, you are the reason you have cancer. You are at fault. You must have done something or thought something to attract cancer to your body. The cure is not found by going to the doctor’s office; rather, it is in your mind. Change your thoughts and the cancer will be removed. If you think in the right thoughts or believe in the universal laws or harness the divine influx. Perhaps you did not have enough faith in the universal laws. In New Thought, you did not have enough faith in the universal laws. In New Thought, there is absolutely no consideration of God. His providence, or His purposes in human suffering and sickness. New Thought promises not only good health with right thinking but also financial prosperity and personal success. Whether the topic is related to health or wealth, the method is the same: control thoughts and success will materialize… In New Thought philosophy, fulfillment is not possible without money. Everything exists in order to assist people in their pursuit of money. How can one attain the use of things? By the proper use of the mind and the exercise of faith. Thoughts will actualize desires in the physical realm. Moreover, Hill says that the main reason people do not achieve wealth is because “many fail to impress Thinking Substance”. By the phrase “Thinking Substance,” Hill refers to the divine. In other words, one has to form clear, mental images of what is desired, whether that is a house, a job, or some form of personal success. This positive thought, then, is the correct method to supernaturally achieve material wealth…Like Hill, Wattles, and Collier, Ernest Holmes contends not only are thoughts critical to acquire success, but also spoken words are of great importance. Thoughts and words are forces that create reality. He writes, “If the word is the way that God creates, it is the right way. If it works for God, shall it not work for us?... All words have as much power as we put into them when we speak. ‘The Word is already in our own mouths.” That word is all that you will ever need to bring happiness, health and success to you… If you want to be healthy and wealthy, then first realize that health and wealth is your rights. Then you must think positive thoughts about your health and wealth. In the New Thought system, the only reason you do not have the health and wealth you desire is because you think incorrectly. Since your thoughts and even your words create reality, simply visualize, believe and speak the right words repeatedly and you will see your circumstances change”.

An Unorthodox View of Salvation: “Denying the historic orthodox doctrine of salvation by faith…Furthermore, according to New Thought, religion is not redemption from sin but simply the process of learning to love one’s neighbor…rejects the uniqueness of Jesus as the only way to salvation…Trine argues that all religions possess the truth and that we must find oneness with the Infinite. The end result is that all religions are the same as they afford man the opportunity to discover the Infinite. According to New Thought, true religion will be attractive to all and repulsive to none. The gospel of New Thought is acceptable to everyone because it omits sin ad each person defines the gospel for him or herself. In Summary, for New Thought, salvation is not placing one’s faith in Jesus Christ, the eternal Son of God, who died for the sins of humankind on the cross. Rather, salvation is a self-generated mystical experience with the Infinite, which entails channeling the divine influx for personal health, wealth and happiness and success…experience of personalities”
Similarities with Hinduism, Oriental philosophy, the occult, a general self-centered pagan approach to life.
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New Thought teaches that the key to health and wealth acquisition is thinking, visualizing, and speaking the right words.
New Thought ideas are often taught using biblical words and are justified by distorting Scripture.
The Teachings of the Prosperity Gospel
Key historical figures in the prosperity gospel movement include EW Kenyon and Kenneth Hagin.
Many contemporary prosperity gospel teachers are associated with the Word of Faith organization and/or Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN).
The prosperity gospel is a broad movement, and there are many differences between the doctrines espoused by various prosperity gospel advocates.
Like New Thought, the prosperity gospel movement is marked by several commonalities, including a distorted view of God, an elevation of mind over matter, an exalted view of people, a focus on attaining health and wealth, and an unorthodox view of salvation.
Joel Osteen is an example of contemporary soft advocate of the prosperity gospel.
The Errors of the Prosperity Gospel
The Prosperity Gospel distorts the true gospel in that it does not point people toward Christ but rather focuses on the attainment of human desires (happiness).
Prosperity gospel teachers misinterpret the Abrahamic covenant to be a promise of health and wealth for Christians who are obedient to God.
Prosperity gospel advocates teach that the death of Christ results in financial and physical well-being for Christians.
Common passages that are appealed to and misinterpreted in order to endorse the prosperity message are Ecc 11:1; Mark 10:30; 2 Cor 9:6; and 3 John 2.
A foundational reason why the prosperity gospel is off base is its fault view of the relationship between God and people.
(Translation used isn't as good. Excellent book, however. ) The OLD KJV (Textus REceptus) is a blessing! Enjoy your days, Pastor and Mrs Stanley! I hope all is going well! You have been such a blessing for many years! I want to give back some to you!

CORRECTION:
by Dr. David Jones, PHD, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary
by Dr Russell Woodridge, PHD, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary

THE BIBLICAL TEACHING ON SUFFERING
The prosperity gospel focuses upon the avoidance of suffering, including financial [suffering], mental [suffering], and physical suffering.
Pain and suffering are common among biblical characters, including David, Jesus and Paul.
Suffering is a normative part of the Christian life and, this side of the grave, is likely to increase with maturing faith.
Three main sources of suffering exist in this present world:(1) the curse on the created order, (2) personal sin, and (3) the sins of others. (Ex. JOB; Personal sin is not always the cause)
Considerations for suffering include the following facts: everyone is a sinner, everyone possesses a free will, there is value in suffering, God is acquainted with suffering and God is sovereign.
Why does God exist and what does He control in the world? What is the purpose of suffering and how do I react when I suffer? Many prosperity gospel teachers teach that God is dependent on people in order to act. When you suffer, do you blame God? When suffering comes, do you think that since you have worked hard to obey God, you do not deserve it? Mental and physical suffering: When you start thinking that you control your own future, then you demote God. Such ideas are at the heart of the prosperity gospel. Within prosperity theology, people are the focal point rather than God. According to the prosperity gospel, you are in control of your own destiny; thus suffering is an indication of your failure to utilize divinely designed means of blessing. In contrast, the Bible teaches that suffering is an instrument to make you more like Christ and that God is working all things in your life for HIS purposes (Romans 5:1; 8:16-18)

THE BIBLICAL TEACHING ON WEALTH AND POVERTY

One of the best defenses against the teachings of the prosperity gospel is a holistic understanding of scriptural teaching on wealth and poverty.

God created people with material needs, as well as both the desire and the ability to meet those needs

The Old Testament economic laws are built upon the ideals of laboring and resting, as well as preventing God’s people from wealth and poverty related sins.

Jesus gave no systematic, detailed economic plan; rather, in the gospels, His example and teachings on wealth and poverty are wideranging and their spiritual impact is what is usually emphasized.

There is a nonrequisite connection between material wealth/poverty and spiritual wealth/poverty.
What do I deserve in life? According to the prosperity gospel, you are entitled to a good life that is marked by good health, beneficial relationship, an abundance of resources and overall success. But is this really true? The bible teaches that if we have food and clothing, we should be content(1 Timothy 6:8)—anything beyond this is pure grace.

Why did God save me? Did God save you because HE needs you on His team? Did God save you so that you could be famous and wealth? Did God save you so that you can fulfill all of your dreams? (i.e. American dream) No. God saved you on account of his great love for you. God saved you so that you might glorify Him forever and so that He might display his grace for all eternity (see Isaiah 43:25; Eph 2:4-10) We were rescued to glorify God and do good works. We did not deserve or earn salvation and this fact alone ought to humble us and cause us to express our gratitude toward God. A major problem with prosperity gospel teaching is that people are encouraged to think too highly of themselves (see Romans 12:3)

THE BIBLICAL TEACHING ON GIVING
Reasons for Christians’ giving include obedience, to demonstrate love, to bring glory to God, because it is a result of the gospel, and because it results in reward.
Contrary to the prosperity gospel, the biblical emphasis is not on present physical rewards for giving but on future spiritual rewards.
Evangelicals disagree about the concept of tithing, but all agree that generous giving is a biblical mandate.
Christians ought to faithfully give to the local church, other Christian organizations, and directly to those who are in need.

Christian nonprofit organizations such as the Evangelical Council for Financial Accountability and Wall Watchers serve as resources to get information about reputable Christian charities and organizations. www.ministrywatch.com or www.ecfa.org.

Why do I give to God? What is your motivation to give to the church, to Christian charities and to those in need? Cheerful heart or do you expect God to pay you back for your generosity? Do you give to please God, who has given you everything or do you give in order to see if God will come through to for you? Do you give out of guilt and obligation, or do you give out of love? If you give to God in order to get something from Him, then you have adopted a framework similar to that of the prosperity gospel. Such a rationale for giving sets one up for failure and short-circuits the true motivation for giving—grace.


OBJECTIONS AND REPLIES
Objection: How can the prosperity gospel be false if so many people follow it? Reply. Ex. 16th century Europeans believe that Earth was the center of the universe…Both history and other religions demonstrate that millions of people can be deceived and follow a lie.

Objection: But most prosperity gospel teachers seem sincere, and it seems that they genuinely want to help people. Reply: Prosperity teachers may be sincere, yet they can be sincerely wrong. It is possible to be passionate about an issue or problem, but to offer the wrong solution. Sincerity and passion cannot be the standard for evaluating the truth.

Objection: Everyone does not agree on everything in the Bible. Reply: Prosperity theology deserves a place in the church. AS far as the claim that Christians do not agree on everything in the bible, this is a true statement, but it misses the point. As we have documented in chapters 2 and 3, prosperity gospel teachers promote false teaching about fundamental beliefs such as who God is, the sinfulness and abilities of people, and the way of salvation. These are not insignificant issues. In fact these are core beliefs that with lead to God and to salvation or away from God and to condemnation. The prosperity gospel is not a harmless movement that is slightly off; rather it is a dangerous movement that has eternal consequences.

Objection: This verse supports the prosperity gospel. Reply: prosperity teachers use a wide variety of verses to support their teachings. [Read the bible in the context of things] The Bible contains many verses that declare God’s blessings toward us and we should rejoice at this. God blesses us in order to meet needs and enable us to give generously. The book of Proverbs teaches that hard, diligent work can lead to prosperity, but the prosperity gospel leads to idolatry: people worship God’s blessings instead of God Himself.
Objection: I’ve given money to prosperity gospel ministries and I’ve seen results. Reply: If there has been a restoration of health or an improvement in someone’s financial situation, it is appropriate to rejoice. Roman 12:15. Yet, to correlate sending money to a prosperity gospel ministry with God’s blessing is faulty. EXPERIENCES MUST BE judged by Scripture. Feelings and results cannot be the arbiter of truth. Just because something supposedly works does not mean that it is true. Christians have a responsibility to evaluate the means as well as the end. In other words, believers must discern if the end was reached in accordance with Scripture.

The goal of this book is to inform readers about the prosperity gospel, including its history, theology, and errors as well as to give biblical teaching on wealth, poverty, suffering and giving. The prosperity gospel is a false gospel that contains false promises, promotes self-exaltation, and ultimately does not satisfy. It is our hope and prayer that the Lord will use this book to draw people away from the prosperity gospel

 2014/3/15 8:11Profile
twayneb
Member



Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 1988
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

I think there is a danger in adopting a theology based upon observation of other men's experience. To say,"It is not God's will to heal all sickness because I know this or that person that died of an illness." does not, to me, speak at all to what scripture teaches us.


It is obvious that every one of us is going to die unless we are alive when Christ returns. Our bodies are corrupted as a result of sin. Our salvation is not yet totally complete. Our spirits have be en perfected forever, but our bodies have yet to be glorified. So, we fight a constant physical battle with sickness and disease, and will until the end, whatever that looks like.


It is also obvious to me that Christ's atonement included physical healing as witnessed by Isaiah 53 and Matthew 8. Jesus also said that He Came to do the will of the Father and proceeded to heal "all that were sick".


So I believe healing is for all, but we cannot, obviously, continue to be healed in perpetuity our else we would never die. There is no conflict here, just reality. Healing is for all, yet healing will not prevent the sentence of death.

But we also know that whatever we receive from God is received by faith. Salvation itself is through faith. Yet not a single one of us has faith perfected in us. My grandfather was a man who was brought up under Parham's ministry and believed a person who trusted in God should not look to the arm of flesh (doctors) but rather trust in God. He received miraculous healing on his own body many times. At 84 he developed prostate cancer. We believed God for his healing until he decided he did not want to fight any more but rather to be with the Lord. at that point, we did not believe any longer for healing. But no one would chide him for a lack of faith.


We have to be careful that we don't talk past one another on this issue. We have to realize that differing theological views will lead is to some radically different conclusions. If we see sovereignty as meaning that absolutely all events are a direct result of God's will then we will never see healing ad His perfect will in all cases, for experience will then be the reformation of His will. If we experience it, it had to be His will add He governs all events. But if we see sovereignty as Good being above and over all, but not necessarily controlling all events, that is to say He has provided some things that we may or may not depending on our choices, then we may more easily believe that healing can be His perfect will, yet we may not experience it all of the time. I guess I fall in the latter camp.


But even then, it is not so simple as having enough faith ore not having enough faith. For example, if you fail to take care of your body, fail to exercise, and eat junk food, no amount of "faith" will counteract your own choices effect on your body.


If I am healed, praise God. If not, I do not believe it was God's doing. Yet I continue to trust Him, confident in His love for me and my relationship with Him. On the meantime I will pray for wisdom that I might know why I game not received yet what I believe He had provided.


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Travis

 2014/3/15 11:40Profile





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