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 Beyond Messianic Judaism

"I'd like to see this message circulated among the whole Messianic Movement" --Art Katz

Pass it on!

http://media.sermonindex.info/3/SID3110.mp3

 2014/3/13 22:20
tbsounde2
Member



Joined: 2009/2/11
Posts: 179
Los Angeles, CA

 Re: Beyond Messianic Judaism

WOW, thank you so much for this post. Some awesome quotes that I jotted down:

"I remember the first time I heard the phrase that we [messianic christians] represent as believers the 4th branch of Judaism, something in my alarm system went off like gangbusters. We are not a 4th branch of their [Jewish] system, we are the continuum of the Abrahamic faith from its inception."

"I’m wondering if anyone is ever a Christian unless he’s willing not only to forfeit what is Jewish, but forfeit his life, period."

"One of my concerns in these last days is the increasing interest in power that the church seems to have now without a too careful attention to the source of it. If you’re just concerned for a result and not too concerned for the source to which the result is obtained you are a candidate for deception."

"Let’s be careful not to accept the things that are rabbinical and humanly traditional that have emanated from the same class that crucified our Messiah and think that it has the same sanctity as the things that are biblical."


_________________
Will

 2014/3/14 0:06Profile
Jeremy221
Member



Joined: 2009/11/7
Posts: 1447


 Re: Beyond Messianic Judaism

There is such weight to Art's words. At the end of the message he talks about the struggle to bring this word and how he was traveling with a brother named Gary from South Africa. For those who have listened to Art's messages, you will have heard of the massacre of some saints who were working in countryside among the poor, black South Africans. These saints were developing industry and training their neighbors to help bring them up out of poverty. Then one night a band of anti-European rebels came in the night and murdered them all. Gary was not there for some reason and was preserved. I understand that he traveled and served with Art for several years. Art tells the account of the martyrdom in one of the messages on apostolic faith and martyrdom.

Thanks for sharing this lesmanto.

 2014/3/14 0:14Profile









 Re:

Great message, by Art.

That was an astonishing statement by Elie Wiesel about refusing to consider the history of the Jewish nation in the light of Deuteronomy 28-30. 2 Chron 7:20-22 is another poignant and defining verse(s).

2Ch 7:20-22 Then will I pluck them up by the roots out of my land which I have given them; and this house, which I have sanctified for my name, will I cast out of my sight, and will make it to be a proverb and a byword among all nations. And this house, which is high, shall be an astonishment to every one that passeth by it; so that he shall say, Why hath the LORD done thus unto this land, and unto this house? And it shall be answered, Because they forsook the LORD God of their fathers, which brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, and laid hold on other gods, and worshipped them, and served them: therefore hath he brought all this evil upon them.

No one is immune to pride and idolatry and we make a huge mistake if we don't see (understand) the spiritual realities in the OT, portrayed in God's dealings with the Hebrew nation.

Jesus is King for Christians right now (first called Christians in Antioch). But Christians must never cease to learn the lessons of the Old Testament which were illustrative examples for us.

1Co_10:11-12 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

And, just as the Jews were carried off to Babylon and became comfortable we must watch out for the Babylonians who try to carry off spiritual Israelites (Christians) into their false religious systems of idolatry with false pastoral kings. The Jews created a new religious system (adapting to Babylon) when they no longer had the temple and the influence of the Babylonians were more than happy to help the Jews with their false moral systems where ethical rules and regulations reign supreme. Babylonian ideals of future events abound today and may the Lord alert us to their false eschatalogical systems with far-out fantasies of what to expect in the physical future. As Christians we have all that God has to give us right now in Jesus Christ. "God has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus" (Ephesians 1:3).

When you read the OT, don't try to duplicate the physical characteristics of it, FEASTS, CEREMONIES, DAYS, etc., but rather, ask the Lord to show you the spiritual reality of what HE was trying to show the Jews in the physical. They were so tied to the physical that when the Spiritual King from the Spiritual Kingdom showed up, they rejected Him.

1Pet 1:17 And if ye call on the Father, who without respect of persons judgeth according to every man's work, PASS THE TIME OF YOUR SOJOURNING HERE IN FEAR.

 2014/3/15 14:10









 Re:

I was struck by the answer God gave to Art. The brother kept asking what type of church will reach the Jews. God`s answer to Art was `a martyred church`.

Blaine

 2014/3/15 14:39









 Re:

The spiritual truth imbedded in that answer is inescapable. In order to be a physical martyr, we must be dying daily and living the crucified life. This is the only Church that is worth anything to each other and the world.

Art is right, that we need an apostolic church. We need men that walk the walk and know how to be ensamples to the flock.

1Pet 5:3 Neither as being lords over God's heritage, but being ensamples to the flock.

It is significant that the Apostle used the word ensample instead of example in this context.

 2014/3/15 15:39









 Re:

Excellent comments and observations, friends. I gather that Jeremy knew or came in contact with Art at some point.

I have always had a great respect for the Jews and thus it led me to the Hebraic Roots teachings some years ago. It was very enlightening to my biblical understanding. However a terrible thing began to happen, someone I love who proclaimed Christ as his Savior, who was of Jewish background, wound up going into Judaism and renouncing Christ!
This was so shocking to me that I began to reconsider the Messianic movement within Christianity. Someone gave me audios of Art Katz.
It took a while to bring me out of my "messianic" ways and God gave me clear vision once again. Of course, the book of Galatians says it so clearly, how did I get so off course? By idolizing the Jews and Jewish ways and Israel, ignoring the fact that every Jew or Gentile needs: Jesus/Yeshua/Jesu/Ye Su/etc!

And Romans 11 is so very clear...but when a spirit of deception comes on us, we can't see truth. I thank God that He loves us SO much that he will continue to deliver us out of bondage!

Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor? Who has ever given to God, that God should repay them? For from him and through him and for him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen.
Romans 11:33-36

In Christ Alone,
Leslie

 2014/3/19 1:09
tbsounde2
Member



Joined: 2009/2/11
Posts: 179
Los Angeles, CA

 Re:

And Romans 11 is so very clear...but when a spirit of deception comes on us, we can't see truth. I thank God that He loves us SO much that he will continue to deliver us out of bondage!

Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor? Who has ever given to God, that God should repay them? For from him and through him and for him are all things. To him be the glory forever! Amen.
Romans 11:33-36


-------


AMEN!


_________________
Will

 2014/3/19 1:24Profile
Jeremy221
Member



Joined: 2009/11/7
Posts: 1447


 Re: Gary

Hi lesmanto,

I didn't hear about Art Katz until after he had passed on. I have listened to most of what is available here though.

Another person God used in connection with Art was Reggie Kelly. In a few of the Prophetich School messages you hear a little of Reggie expounding more clearly on certain subjects. I think Reggie has some much needed teaching ability on the subject of Israel and the Last Days and has endevoured to develop an evangelism course to the Jews. It was first brought to mind when he was working with Art and they titled it Apocoliptic Evangelism. The goal of the training is to provide believers with an understanding of prophesy and its End TIme implications for the Jews as a tool for sharing the Gospel with them. Part of its realization requires the input of saints from all walks of life to share, add, inform and revise it so that it is a demonstration of the Wisdom of God through the whole remnant Church. You can find out more here.

http://the.mysteryofisrael.org/category/apocalyptic-evangelism/

 2014/3/19 2:35Profile









 Re: Beyond Messianic Judaism

The first link didn't work, hopefully this one does.

http://ia600801.us.archive.org/29/items/SERMONINDEX_SID3110/SID3110.mp3

 2017/5/29 17:39





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