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 Re:

I agree pay your taxes. They have hundreds of lawyers and unlimited taxpayer money to persecute and prosecute you.

Also Greg, compare Romans 13 in the KJV with any other translation.

Throughout history, oppressive regimes have tried to suppress or outlaw the Bible. In the "land of the free," the adversary is more devious. Bible paraphrases change the Truth of God into lies to support the State's agenda. (See Romans 1:25)

The words chosen are not Bible words, they are statists' words. The changes are subtle, but the effects are dramatic. For instance, in the Living Bible paraphrase of Romans 13, we are told that if we refuse to obey the "law of the land," we are refusing to obey God. This is just another clever means of persuading Christians to take up citizenship with the kingdoms of the world.

The Living Bible paraphrase also says "the policeman is sent by God to help you." Is this job of "policeman" created by and for Jesus Christ, or was it created for "other purposes?"

Today's policemen have become the "Kings" revenue collectors. They are no longer "peace officers" where their only concern used to be "keeping the peace" (making sure no one was disturbing the peace).

How out of control have things gotten by the statists and their rules and regulations, backed up by intimidation from police or national guard (remember Katrina)? You and I and everyone are the frog. Do we feel the water getting hotter or are we in denial? It feels pretty hot to me.

And it feels pretty hot to these people, too.

FDA Starts to Take Control of American Organic Farms
http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/fda-starts-to-take-control-of-american-organic-farms/

CDC Caught Hiding Data Showing Mercury in Vaccines Linked to Autism
http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/cdc-caught-hiding-data-showing-mercury-in-vaccines-linked-to-autism/

Mother Collapses in Court House After Daughter Put in Foster Care Over Medical Dispute
http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/mother-collapses-in-court-house-after-daughter-put-in-foster-care-over-medical-dispute/

Many Jews in Germany just before WWII did not feel the water getting hotter.

We have all been duped into thinking that everything the authorities are doing they are doing for our good.

Do you need a Marriage Certificate from the State? No. Check out what rights you give up when you accept the benefit and privilege of a Marriage Certificate.

Back to Romans 13. The world infiltrated the church with their own Bible "translators". They were no translators at all. We are believing Romans 13 the way the world wants us to believe it. Is it a sin to disobey the police? Well, you have to first answer if they are from God. Brother Andrew disobeyed Russian police and guards and deceived them when smuggling Bibles into Russia, knowing full well he was deceiving them and breaking their laws.

I don't know what each individual is supposed to do in every situation and I am not saying to be lawless. Christians are not lawless. We are definitely under the Law of Christ and God. But the authorities are lawless today and they want to turn it around on us and say that we are lawless when we refuse to comply with their lawless orders.

Check out this jogger who was arrested for jogging. Do we even know all the lawless laws being written every day? http://observer.com/2014/02/morning-glory-jogger-ticketed-for-crack-of-dawn-run-through-central-park/

Check out the Codex Alimentarius (Latin for Food Code): http://www.naturalnews.com/024128_CODEX_food_health.html#

How many of you will be disobeying the CODEX laws and growing your own food in your backyard?

How many here are not going to comply with Obamacare? How many here don't comply with certain laws because you deem them lawless? Be honest.

http://romans13.embassyofheaven.com/arepolicesentbygod.php

One other thing, the word MATRIX has been taken out of all the fraudulent Bibles. It appears 5 times in the KJV. Do a study on it. The State wants everyone born to be theirs not to be God's. Check out the implications of the Birth Certificate. There is little separation unto the Lord these days.

Yes, our battle is not against flesh and blood, we are in a spiritual battle that is coming through men. Everyone has their own "boiling point" where they draw a line in the sand and they won't cross it, and I don't judge anyone's convictions. For some it's Obamacare, others it is being told to shut down their free range pig farm (link provided above), or having their children kidnapped from them by the "authorities", etc, etc. Some fight it in court and are ruined, others are leaving the United States Corporation and going to Chile, Belize or some other place. But some, the Lord is leading them to stay right where they are at.

People just need to wake up and realize only the Lord has their best interests at heart. Never put any trust in man. Remember, every privilege, benefit, comfort you accept from the State, you are invariably giving up something to them.

Psa 118:8 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in man.
Psa 118:9 It is better to trust in the LORD than to put confidence in princes.

 2014/3/2 9:44
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 Re:

Brother, I agree that we are "of" a kingdom that is not of this world and that we should handle loosely the things of this setting our minds above and our heart affecton on things above (Col 3:1-3). Yet even our Lord paid taxes to the authorities and never was rebellious to them. As Christians we should never undermine and go against the government unless they violate our beliefs as christians.

For government to be overtaxing americans is absolutely no reason to try and undermine them and speak evil of them. That is plainly wrong. To try and tie in Matrix to the bible from the modern movie is wrong also brother. I would suggest everyone never watch that movie it was made by wicked blasphemous men. We should live humble quiet lives in all godliness in the land. Sharing our faith and being an example to everyone of a godly life.

To watch shows like Glenn Beck just feed the conspiracy theories and also rebellious attitude to governments. Of course we should not agree with decisions of governments when they violate our beliefs such as homeschooling our children, etc. In the end we still need to obey the authorities. The early Christians obeyed the Roman authorities except at the point of worshipping Caeser and many became martyrs.

I do not see how you can see anything different in the King James Version:


Romans 13
King James Version (KJV)
13 Let every soul be subject unto the higher powers. For there is no power but of God: the powers that be are ordained of God.

2 Whosoever therefore resisteth the power, resisteth the ordinance of God: and they that resist shall receive to themselves damnation.

3 For rulers are not a terror to good works, but to the evil. Wilt thou then not be afraid of the power? do that which is good, and thou shalt have praise of the same:

4 For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon him that doeth evil.

5 Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for wrath, but also for conscience sake.

6 For for this cause pay ye tribute also: for they are God's ministers, attending continually upon this very thing.

7 Render therefore to all their dues: tribute to whom tribute is due; custom to whom custom; fear to whom fear; honour to whom honour.

8 Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2014/3/2 10:59Profile









 Re:

Hi Greg,

Off subject a bit, but I was wondering if SI was a 501(3)C organization. Has SI received any "privileges or benefits" from the government in any way?

And do you think Christians should obey all lawless laws?

What do you think of Brother Andrew's deception of the Russian authorities? There is a higher law, right?

 2014/3/2 11:13
JB1968
Member



Joined: 2009/8/31
Posts: 416
Ohio USA

 Re:

What difference does it make? If you want to be a house church then be one. Just because our church is tax exempt, it does not mean we have submitted to the evil in the government. Think of it this way-our forefathers believed in the work of the church of Jesus Christ and the benefits it provides society, therefore they believed it should be tax exempt. What has spoiled it for many churches is when they become a country club (for example, gymns, restaurants, stores, multiple properties to rent out for an income thinking it will be tax free) instead of a servant of God to bless the world . In our state, the parsonage is taxed but the church building isn't.


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James

 2014/3/2 11:44Profile
rainydaygirl
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Joined: 2008/10/27
Posts: 742


 Re:

Greg: For government to be overtaxing americans is absolutely no reason to try and undermine them and speak evil of them. That is plainly wrong. To try and tie in Matrix to the bible from the modern movie is wrong also brother. I would suggest everyone never watch that movie it was made by wicked blasphemous men.---

i know of some who watched this movie(the first one) and God spoke to their hearts as they watched. There is a lot of allegory in the first Matrix movie that the Lord might use to open the hearts of men. i know of one lady who specifically watched this movie(an edited version) and God just so spoke to her that she realized she was living a lie and wasn't really saved at all. she felt so convicted after that she began reading her Bible for deeper understanding and later repented of her sins and came to Christ after years of attending church. not saying that the movie will have that effect on all that watch it, or that it compares to the Bible but i wouldn't want to limit God in what He has done in the hearts of others who have seen it. Of course i do not recommend watching an unedited version of the movie but i have seen and know of to many who have had their eyes opened up to His truth after seeing that movie and their hearts begin to question what they thought was real relationship with Jesus.

now i realize my contribution was really off topic so i will let the thread continue on. just wanted to throw that out there in case others had encountered Jesus after the Lord used that movie as a catalyst in their lives.

rdg

 2014/3/2 12:26Profile
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 Re:

Quote:
Off subject a bit, but I was wondering if SI was a 501(3)C organization. Has SI received any "privileges or benefits" from the government in any way?

And do you think Christians should obey all lawless laws?

What do you think of Brother Andrew's deception of the Russian authorities? There is a higher law, right?



The Lord clearly spoke to my heart that SI should not be a non-profit or hvae 501(3)c status so we have not done this for the 12 years of the website by God's grace.


Quote:
lawless laws



If the law goes against our morals and biblical commands then we should not obey, so if the gov't told someone to have a forced abortion etc we should not obey this. Otherwise the Sermon on the Mount is clear if someone asks for your shirt give him your coat as well. Meaning we need to allow ourselves to be used and abused to a measure for the sake of Christ and do it joyfully wish gives an occasion for testimony.



Quote:
What do you think of Brother Andrew's deception of the Russian authorities? There is a higher law, right?



They never lied in smuggling bibles across the border, they just told them what they needed to. That is greatly different then trying to deceive the gov't over taxes because you feel you could, etc. And brother andrews organization is 501(3)c so you know brother.



The reason also brother I am interjecting into this discussion is that on the community guidelines we do not allow for conspiracy theories or conjectures about them, we find this ends in unhealthy divisions and conversations:

Let us go forward with meekness towards each other and having in mind the larger picture of the entire body of Christ. "I appeal to you, brothers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that all of you agree with one another so that there may be no divisions among you and that you may be perfectly united in mind and thought." (1 Corinthians 1:10). We have found that discussions pertaining to politics, conspiracy theories, calvinism/arminianism and others just produce strife and not the fruits of the Spirit so we ask saints not to start these discussion threads on SermonIndex

from: http://www.sermonindex.net/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=44556&forum=13


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2014/3/2 15:19Profile









 Re:

I believe The Lord did tell you that. I'm sure you are thankful that you listened to Him.

 2014/3/2 17:34









 Re:

Quote:
If the law goes against our morals and biblical commands then we should not obey, so if the gov't told someone to have a forced abortion etc we should not obey this. Otherwise the Sermon on the Mount is clear if someone asks for your shirt give him your coat as well. Meaning we need to allow ourselves to be used and abused to a measure for the sake of Christ and do it joyfully wish gives an occasion for testimony.



But brother, you must allow for other brothers to live according to their conscious, right? So, if a brother and sister are against getting a marriage certificate from the State, a birth certificate or SSN for their children, that is their choice. Correct? They should not be accused of undermining society or the government or being conspiracy theorists. It sounds strange to "normal" people at first until you look into the reasons why they do this. The Amish do that and they also own allodial lands not feudal lands. Their lands cannot be taxed with property tax. There is some wisdom to what the Amish have done, but many do need Christ. Well, many in Protestant churches need Christ to. If I buy land, I will surely look for allodial land but I think allodial laws only exist in Nevada and Texas, now.

This will explain allodial title for those who don't understand it. http://www.libertyforlife.com/law/law-allodial_title.htm

Going back to what you said about "morals and biblical commands", Jesus said you cannot serve two Masters.

Because of this I appeal to you to allow brothers to live according to their conscious and accept them and not label them with worldly names. I don't even do any of the things I have mentioned but I would accept as brothers those who because of conscience sake can't bring themselves to do many things that most of us find normal. I would not label them conspiracy theorists, either. I think that is a despicable way to marginalize a brother. It is self-evident that the world system conspires constantly to enslave and control their subjects more and more.

As far as I know I am at peace with everyone here and once again it is strange that you can bring up political subjects but others cannot. And I just want to bring to your attention that I was mostly bringing up American historical economic events. Some of these events are the District of Columbia Act of 1871, The Great Banking Act of 1933, The Social Security Act of 1935, The Patriot Act of 2001, The Affordable Care Act of 2010? Did Americans lose something with all of these Acts? They surely did. Do they know what they lost? Most do not.

Is there something wrong with Christians knowing what the ramifications of these acts were and how they affect their lives?

Is it wrong to understand history and think of the future? What will the Act or Law be called that prevents us from buying or selling?

I'm done for now and will take a sabbatical from SI.

I can't bring myself to just post political articles like you do, but not delve into them deeper.


 2014/3/2 18:13
Sidewalk
Member



Joined: 2011/11/11
Posts: 705
San Diego

 Re: Just-in

I hope your sabbatical is short. I for one am inspired by your cutting edge wisdom, your ability to examine things from outside the box, your considerable knowledge, and even some very sweet humility when you are cracking the whip...

I respect the anonymity you prefer as a SI poster, but can you give out any information of where you live?


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Tom Cameron

 2014/3/2 19:34Profile









 Re:

Lone Star

 2014/3/2 21:17





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