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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : The Mental and Emotional Anguish of Hell by John Boruff

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Lordoitagain
Member



Joined: 2008/5/23
Posts: 586
Monroe, LA - USA

 Re:

DEADn brings up a good point here. If the wicked have no afterlife why is so much of the scripture devoted to severely warning the wicked if the consequences have no teeth; if there is no afterlife for the wicked. Why would John the Baptist get so irate and call those people vipers and warn them of the wrath to come if there were not something beyond this life in that suffering. It makes no sense. The world would be wise to totally ignore the Bible if its rantings about judgment have no real forever consequences.

Eat drink and be merry for tomorrow we die... sounds reasonable if there is no afterlife for the wicked.

Have you ever noticed that there is a lot more of warnings in the Bible than promises of blessings?


_________________
Michael Strickland

 2014/2/28 23:55Profile
noone
Member



Joined: 2008/3/17
Posts: 48
United States

 Re:

enid
Member

Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2560
Nottingham, England
Re: Reply To This Post |

"How come heaven is eternal, but hell isn't?"




Maybe because God truly is Love and full of mercy?

 2014/3/1 0:56Profile
lindi1208
Member



Joined: 2011/3/8
Posts: 151


 Re:

Jesus preached about hell more than any other preacher. Hell is real! The thought that people die every day and their souls go to hell because they have rejected salvation or resisted the gospel of truth should spur those who believe to pray for the unsaved! We should plead to Our merciful Father for lost souls continually without ceasing. The torment of hell is just as real as Heaven is real and a dwelling place for faithful saints. It is difficult to fathom that each day that we are alive there are millions who have died through the ages who are literally in torments weeping and gnashing their teeth because they rejected their Maker who saw it fit to crucify His only begotten Son to save mankind from sin and hell. That thought of eternity in hell should spur us to pray because right now someone somewhere is dying and is going to hell. We need to be petitioning our Maker for the lost. Hell was prepared for the enemy and his demons,the enemy is busy deceiving the world and some Christians that hell does not exist. The devil wants you there in hell with him. Why did the demons tremble when they saw Jesus they trembled because they know hell is real yet we still have those who do not tremble at the thought of eternity in hell. God is a God of Love but equally a God of Judgement. He is unchanging the same today and forever. Let us not put Him to the test by denying the Word that He spoke to us these last days through His Son Jesus Christ. May He be merciful towards us all especially those the enemy has blinded into believing a lie that hell does not exist. Let us unify in prayer for lost souls.


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Lindi

 2014/3/1 1:40Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 1319
NC, USA

 Re:

Bear wrote:

"And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest day or night"

Apocalyptic language should not be taken literally. Compare the passage you quoted to Is. 34:9-10 about judgment on Edom:
"Its streams shall be turned into pitch,
And its dust into brimstone;
Its land shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night or day;
Its smoke shall ascend forever."

Smoke is not still ascending in Edom. Isaiah used apocalyptic language as well.


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Todd

 2014/3/1 8:13Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 1319
NC, USA

 Re:

ANNIHILATIONISM

Some of you have a mistaken idea of what this means. It does not mean being simply being "snuffed out" when you die.

The proper term used in evangelical circles is "Conditional Immortality."

It basically holds that only God is immortal(1 Timothy 6:15-16: He who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone has immortality, dwelling in unapproachable light, whom no man has seen or can see, to whom be honor and everlasting power.)

Therefore, since man is NOT inherently immortal, whether his soul lives on forever is CONDITIONAL. If he has not repented in his lifetime and followed the Lord, he will be punished in a literal hell for as long as God determines, through His perfect justice, is necessary. At the end of this period his soul is snuffed out of existence.

The difference between Conditional Immortality and Universal Reconciliation is this: the person who believes in Universal Reconciliation believes that physical death is not the "cut-off point" for a person's chance to repent. The person who believes in UR believes in a literal hell, but the purpose of this hell is REMEDIAL- to ensure that all men, perhaps after eons of torment, will finally bow the knee and repent.

The traditional view of hell as a place of infinite punishment and torture for a short period of sins on earth, and all this by a God defined as love, is coming under more recent scrutiny because people are finally having the courage to discuss whether the Bible actually teaches this doctrine.

Besides, do most evangelical Christians REALLY believe in the traditional view of hell? A brother on another forum wrote the following:

"Besides, most Christians nowadays don't believe in the Hell of eternal conscious torment. Not really. This is clearly evidenced by the way they live and the priorities they set in their lives. If one is truly convinced that, for most people, a short span on earth is followed by an eternity of misery, then surely one would spend every waking hour, every penny and every ounce of energy trying to save people from it. I think most Christians who claim to believe in the traditional concept of Hell suffer from a form of cognitive dissonance which forces them to tune out and turn away from any lingering thoughts on the fate of most of their fellow humans; the people they rub shoulders with and work with and live with. Those who are unable to compartmentalize the doctrine of Hell become wild-eyed street preachers or suffer nervous breakdowns."


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Todd

 2014/3/1 8:32Profile
Lordoitagain
Member



Joined: 2008/5/23
Posts: 586
Monroe, LA - USA

 Re:

Quote:
by TMK on 2014/3/1 8:13:02

Bear wrote:

"And the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever, and they have no rest day or night"

Apocalyptic language should not be taken literally. Compare the passage you quoted to Is. 34:9-10 about judgment on Edom:
"Its streams shall be turned into pitch,
And its dust into brimstone;
Its land shall become burning pitch. It shall not be quenched night or day;
Its smoke shall ascend forever."

Smoke is not still ascending in Edom. Isaiah used apocalyptic language as well.




I hope that no one reading TMK's arguments is foolish enough to believe what he writes because he uses terms such as "apocalyptic language". In Spanish that name of the book of the Revelation is "Apocalipsis". If we reject one part of the book because it is "apocalyptic language" how can we accept another part?

Two verses after saying:

"And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever" in Rev. 4:11

he says in Rev. 4:13 "And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the Lord from henceforth: Yea, saith the Spirit, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them."

Likewise, in chapter 21 of the "apocalyptic language" book of the Revelation it states:

Rev 21:3 And I heard a great voice out of heaven saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he will dwell with them, and they shall be his people, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God.
Rev 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Shall we reject that as "apocalyptic language"? Perhaps we need to in order to make our ideas work, because only 4 verses later, he states:

Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Think about that .... "have their part in". Look at the definition of the word "part" used there:

G3313
μέρος
meros
Thayer Definition:
1) a part
1a) a part due or assigned to one
1b) lot, destiny
2) one of the constituent parts of a whole
2a) in part, partly, in a measure, to some degree, as respects a part, severally, individually
2b) any particular, in regard to this, in this respect

That "second death" is an eternal separation from all that is good for those who reject God's gift of salvation and do not repent of their sins.

The rest of the chapter talks about streets of gold and gates of pearl and many other wonders of what God has prepared for those who love him. It is ALL "apocalyptic language" it is from the book of Apocalipsis!

It is a horrible deception to choose to not take it literal because it is "apocalyptic language"!




_________________
Michael Strickland

 2014/3/1 8:59Profile
Lordoitagain
Member



Joined: 2008/5/23
Posts: 586
Monroe, LA - USA

 Re:

Another thought to ponder: How can there be a "second death" as recorded in The Revelation 21:8 if the first death is the end of it all for evildoers?


_________________
Michael Strickland

 2014/3/1 9:03Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 1319
NC, USA

 Re:

You don't have to accept that large portions or Isaiah, the latter part of Daniel and the book of Revelation are examples of the apocalyptic genre of literature, but regardless that is what they are.

When Daniel said he saw four beasts coming out of the sea, what was he talking about? Godzilla like creatures surfacing from the ocean? Or something else?

Do not make the mistake of accusing me of believing that the scriptures are not inspired just because they use apocalyptic style. I believe that is what God wanted them to write. But apocalyptic language is full of metaphors THAT ARE NOT INTENDED to be take literally. No one thinks that Babylon in the book of Revelation was really the Babylon in Iraq. Interpretations tend toward the Roman Empire, America or the Catholic Church. Who knows.


_________________
Todd

 2014/3/1 10:04Profile









 Re: TMK

Brrother if you're going to reason Rev.14:11 as being apocalyptic with the use of the phrase "forever and ever". Thus inferring the use of that phrase as not meaning an eternal reality of hell. Then how do you treat Rev.22:5 which says the saints will reign "forever and ever"? Would this not the apocalyptic? Thus inferring that there is no eternal reality to heaven.

It would stand to reasons by your implication of apocalyptic language that if hell is not eternal then neither is heaven.

Blaine

 2014/3/1 13:07









 Re: An explanation please.

Mathew 25:46
These will go away into "eternal punishment", but the righteous into "eternal life".

For those who argue that there is no eternal punishment, thus inferring there is no eternal reality to hell. Then you will have to reason there is no eternal life, thus inferring there is no eternal reality to heaven. In which case you will have to explain away the above verse out of Matthew.

Blaine

 2014/3/1 13:16





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