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onemite
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Joined: 2011/9/19
Posts: 168


 Wisdom required for a matter of submission.

Time is marching on and I've sat alone in this subject for years, thinking that It will work out if I set myself to continue in my way but nothing has changed this way or that way. I don't think I am more spiritual having dug my heels in, nor more carnal. I am not very eloquent in expressing myself so I will just be to the point.

I seek to please God in my life as a mother and wife and yet there are things that I feel keep me in a stagnant place because I am unsure of the way to go.

"...But a married woman is concerned about the affairs of this world—how she can please her husband."
yes, this is so true. How then can one give themself completely to the things of God?

My husband is not a believer and his ideas of what is "good" and pleasing to god in way of charity is very different than than the way my God gives Himself. Caring for an obvious outward sinner is looked upon with contempt.

Also, I believe it is God who has given me such distaste for the gawdiness that I see in women and the haughtiness that accompanies it. I know it is from God because when I look in the mirror I am equally disgusted and study myself to see if and how I am different.

My husband has often encouraged me to have a facelift or get botox. Of course, every woman wants to be beautiful- especially in the eyes of her husband and so it has been very hard for me to refuse! He adorns me with things that fit his idea of beautiful and views my refusal to wear them as rebellion against pleasing him and a self righteousness.
I realise that none of these things are in themselves sinful but there is always that thing lurking in my heart that would prefer be lazy and not to go out and serve- to use my money to beautify my house over giving to the poor, to spend time and money beautifying myself for myself, and all while being able to use my husband as my excuse.

On the other hand, is refusal to make myself into the beauty my husband wants rebellion? It could be self sacrifical to make myself into the thing I have a distaste for...

Is secret giving to the poor or to build the Kingdom of God considered stealing if my husband doesn't approve? He does give me money as my own... but then he also accounts for it.

When I do righteous deeds and let my husband see them I fear becoming proud.

When I do them in secret I fear being deceptive.

Do any of you believe you have the counsel of God in this matter? I'd love to hear your thoughts.



 2014/2/21 13:21Profile
onemite
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Joined: 2011/9/19
Posts: 168


 Re: Wisdom required for a matter of submission.

By the way, I want to make sure that I'm not painting an inacurrate picture of myself. I do wear some make up and sometimes jewelry. I am not so secure in my appearance as so go completely natural.
What I want is to no longer walk around in shame- feeling ashamed because I feel ugly and feeling ashamed on the other hand when I feel that look worldly- the very thing I find ugly. Shame because I am closed- fisted with money and then shame when I give to those who need knowing that my husband will not approve.

 2014/2/21 15:00Profile
Theophila
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Joined: 2007/1/15
Posts: 365


 Re: Wisdom required for a matter of submission.

Dear Sister,
As a fellow sister on this journey, I can relate to your desire to both please the Lord and your husband. I also apologize in advance if my words seem hard.

As with any other issue, the primary thing is to work it out with the Lord. I humbly suggest you take the matter to the Lord. If you would totally submit yourself to the Lord, He will make a way for you and your husband to come to a mutually agreeable position on the issue of outward adornment. I do not believe the Lord is pleased when wives do not submit to their husbands.

I also, by experience, have come to realize how hurt and wounded husbands can get when their wives refuse their gifts. If your husband buys you jewelry, I believe you are advancing the cause of the Kingdom by wearing them cheerfully. Your husband's heart is made glad. Especially as he does not see beauty as you see it. If he feels unappreciated, he's not likely to want to hear/see your witness of Jesus in his home.

In all, I believe you have great need of the Lord's presence [as I do too].

May the Lord grant you wisdom, my sister. Amen.


_________________
Tolu

 2014/2/21 15:22Profile
roadsign
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Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3776


 Re:

Quote:
I seek to please God in my life as a mother and wife and yet there are things that I feel keep me in a stagnant place because I am unsure of the way to go.

On the other hand, is refusal to make myself into the beauty my husband wants rebellion? It could be self sacrifical to make myself into the thing I have a distaste for...



Sister, I feel for your sense of uncertainty and bondage. You are not alone in this trial. Many women around the world find themselves in bondage to those who hold power over them –esp their husbands. But there’s hope.

Our calling as a Christian can indeed be filled with real joy and freedom – regardless of our circumstances. In actuality, no one can stop us from being all that God calls us to be – unless we allow them to. It is our own consciences that restrict us. We give people power over us in ways that is not fitting of the great commandment: to love God, and others AS OURSELVES.

I capitalized this last segment, because this is where we are most liable to falter: We fail to love ourselves for who we are in God’s eyes. This is not about narcissism – but about self-respect! If we cannot value ourselves with respect, then we will more easily allow others to treat us disrespectfully.

Unless you are Queen Esther, your refusal to enter into the beauty contests of the world, is not rebellion – but might indeed be an expression of authentic self-respect – and, in actuality, submission.

You could end up draining all your energy trying to decide which good works or how much beautifying is considered to be acceptable – or “submissive”. You can get into knots over this, or as you say, “a stagnant place”.

Did you notice that in all this pondering, your mind is dwelling on yourself. I’ve discovered that self-absorption is a pit of hell. God has not called you or me to this rut, has he? And if I give you a run down of what I think you should do, I’d be falling into this same trap. I would merely intensify self-absorption and merely feed into a sense of insecurity.

I know that, with God’s Spirit, you can make choices that please HIM and lead you to be a godly wife – even if your husband feels threatened by it. Your destiny is not to fill the void in your husband’s heart by complying to all his selfish demands. That’s God’s job! Nor are you destined to feed his insatiable appetites for control by being overly-passive.

Sister, keep looking up to your Maker – your heavenly husband. As you find yourself walking in your high calling, you will grow into ever deepening freedom. How others react to you is not your responsibility. It is theirs, and you can’t control that. Your husband might come to respect you more and even be drawn to the Lord, ; or it may go the other way. There are no guarantees. But you can be sure, that as you are becoming who you are called to be – your heavenly Husband/Father will protect, preserve you, you, and bless you - that is, HONOUR you. (Honour is the opposite of shame).

And that’s all that matters.

Diane


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Diane

 2014/2/21 16:55Profile
onemite
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Joined: 2011/9/19
Posts: 168


 Re:

Theophila,
thank you for your response. Thank you for the insight concerning wearing of gifts. I've not refused the gifts themselves, but don't wear them after the first few days I receive them. However, I'll give more consideration to at least wearing them at home. You make a good point, and I don't want him to feel unappreciated.
I'm much more concerned with his feeling that I need plastic surgery and dye in order to maintain appearances. I see it as yet another thing to cause people to covet. We all covet. There is no end to the need to look good.
Roadsign-
you say, "You could end up draining all your energy trying to decide which good works or how much beautifying is considered to be acceptable – or “submissive”. You can get into knots over this..." This is true! It can be interpreted as self righteousness if I pick and choose what is acceptable and what is not. I only know what I am comfortable with and what I am not and since my husband has given me the freedom to basically wear what I choose (as I am aging). I believe it is the Holy Spirit giving me this boundary concerning my jewelry and clothing now. I could not say for sure when I wasn't free to choose.
But it's laughable for me to imagine a modest woman who wears a scarf on her head as a sign of submission, with a ring on every finger and her cheeks and lips pumped full of gel! I have greater understanding why we as Christians are not to judge based on what we see! Oh I am thankful to God for His mercy! I am so weak and in need of it! I don't want the outward to distract from the work of God shining from the inward- neither the outward to settle in my heart and corrupt me.
Thank you ladies, for your encouragement to continue looking to the Lord.
I will draw near to God and do all that I can to keep a clear conscience. He knows that my desire is to bring honor to the name of Jesus. I want to be mindful of that all the time.

 2014/2/22 13:30Profile
Theophila
Member



Joined: 2007/1/15
Posts: 365


 Re:

Dear Onemite,
Warm hugs to you, my sister.
I hear you on the matter of outward appearance. However, I would be primarily concerned about the effect of your appearance on your husband, within reasonable limits of propriety of course. Actually, dyeing hair is a pretty reasonable thing to do. Again, consider that the most important thing is your motivation for doing it. Since it is to bless your husband's heart and not to provoke others to envy, there is no condemnation.

May the peace of the Lord continue with you..


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Tolu

 2014/2/22 18:35Profile
onemite
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Joined: 2011/9/19
Posts: 168


 Re:

I've completely edited out this post because I dont like what I said.
I'm sorry.

 2014/2/22 20:20Profile
Jeremy221
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Joined: 2009/11/7
Posts: 1468


 Re: Wisdom required for a matter of submission.

You have found a very real cost of being married as a Christian.

Ezekiel 16:7-14 KJV
[7] I have caused thee to multiply as the bud of the field, and thou hast increased and waxen great, and thou art come to excellent ornaments: thy breasts are fashioned, and thine hair is grown, whereas thou wast naked and bare. [8] Now when I passed by thee, and looked upon thee, behold, thy time was the time of love; and I spread my skirt over thee, and covered thy nakedness: yea, I sware unto thee, and entered into a covenant with thee, saith the Lord God , and thou becamest mine. [9] Then washed I thee with water; yea, I throughly washed away thy blood from thee, and I anointed thee with oil. [10] I clothed thee also with broidered work, and shod thee with badgers' skin, and I girded thee about with fine linen, and I covered thee with silk. [11] I decked thee also with ornaments, and I put bracelets upon thy hands, and a chain on thy neck. [12] And I put a jewel on thy forehead, and earrings in thine ears, and a beautiful crown upon thine head. [13] Thus wast thou decked with gold and silver; and thy raiment was of fine linen, and silk, and broidered work; thou didst eat fine flour, and honey, and oil: and thou wast exceeding beautiful, and thou didst prosper into a kingdom. [14] And thy renown went forth among the heathen for thy beauty: for it was perfect through my comeliness, which I had put upon thee, saith the Lord God .

If God did this both physically and spiritually for Israel, what's the implication for you and your husband?

1 Corinthians 11:7 KJV
[7] For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

Have you ever experienced the glory and light of Christ shining through the face of someone? Someone who had lived in sin that destroyed their body? Aren't you flesh and blood too?

First clean the inside of the vessel that you might be a vessel of honor. If Rivers of Living Water are flowing out of you, will people notice the vessel or the Water?

 2014/2/23 10:09Profile
Jeremy221
Member



Joined: 2009/11/7
Posts: 1468


 Re: The Cost

1 Corinthians 7:13-17 KJV
[13] And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. [14] For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the wife, and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the husband: else were your children unclean; but now are they holy. [15] But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases : but God hath called us to peace. [16] For what knowest thou, O wife, whether thou shalt save thy husband? or how knowest thou, O man, whether thou shalt save thy wife? [17] But as God hath distributed to every man, as the Lord hath called every one, so let him walk. And so ordain I in all churches.

Will you really go a 100% if this happens? Whose praise is more important?

Luke 14:26 KJV
[26] If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters, yea, and his own life also, he cannot be my disciple.

Are you following?

 2014/2/23 10:45Profile
onemite
Member



Joined: 2011/9/19
Posts: 168


 Re:

Thank you Jeremy.

I hear what you are saying and I have a lot to work out with God. I am not looking for an easy answer, nor a way out of marriage.
I have always thought that submitting to God meant always submitting to my husband. I have submit to the request to keep my religion to myself to the point of basically keeping all prayer and praising restricted to the confines of my closet. Just about everything I do out of my love for God I do secretly.
I mean, if I had the aroma of Christ so much as either to draw or repel him would be a very good thing but for me to not see some movement this way or that has me reevaluating things. I've lost sight of what being separated unto the Lord might look like in my case and that's why I started the thread.

 2014/2/25 1:52Profile





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