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Delboy
Member



Joined: 2004/2/8
Posts: 199
Worthing UK

 Re: The apostolic preaching of the cross

Ron recommended the book by leon morris, on bible expressions "The apostolic preaching of the cross"
just to let folk know there are some second hand ones on Amazon.co.uk
just recieved mine... excellent, thanks Mr B
:-)


_________________
derek Eyre

 2005/4/11 6:25Profile
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Bro Ron you have said yourself on some place in this forum that you are a teacher of the word. You will have much to answer for before God if what you teach is not given you by the holy spirit. If what you teach isn't given you by the Holy spirit, then that misleads many who then go n to mislead others and where does it end?



Don't assume to know too much about Bro. Ron, you will certainly regret it in the end. The more I learn of his teachings the more I realize how wrong I was when I first encountered him. Truly we [u]all[/u] will give an account of what we teach. I would suggest listening to at least 10 of his sermons and then re-enguage this thread.


Quote:
Bro Ron every time you have explained something you have always quoted something from the BDB ( don't quite remember what that stands for) or some renowned theologian or scholar, never have you mentioned that the spirit gave me a revelation of this or that.



It is not a virtue to forsake valid resources in order to make a show of great spiritual insight. Actually, Bro. Ron has received revelation from God on issues such as Propitiation and the Red Heifer and [i]then[/i] after being a good Berean to insure what was revealed squared with scripture was accused of looking to validate his teaching by quoting concuring resources later. He has taken it from both ends of the stick.



Quote:
I submit to you that if all these theologies and products of scholarship had equal power in the spirit, by God the enemy and his minions would be on their knees pleading for us to stop putting the boot to their backsides! But look around you, who is getting the whooping? This is evidence that all these great libraries are full of nonsense! Hot air! What really sucks is that this stuff has taken the place of the ministry of the holy spirit and it sounds so good that nobody wants to give it a second thought. I guess we are more impressed by big words and nice-sounding statements.This is the same stuff the pharisees were spewing and which Christ was so against because it is hard for anyone to understand. If my interpretation of scripture, your interpretation of scripture is not a thing taught by the Holy spirit then it is nothing but useless and we need to realize that.



I hear what you are saying here, but again, don't underestimate who you are dealing with. You should get Bro. Ron's series "Having begun in the Spirit."

The Spirit and the Word agree. There are lots of 'big words' that have very deep meanings in the New Testament. I submit that many are on the milk and think it is spiritual- when it is not spiritual it is evidence of sin in their life. Everything proceeds from revelation and what is revealed must square with scripture. You shall know the TRUTH and the Truth shall make you free. It is the Anointing that destroys the yoke. That, combined, is the Sword of the Spirit. The anointed truth of God's word. We can't bring a plastic knife to battle and pray we have enough anointing that it will prevail. We need a mighty sword and the anointing and wisdom to weild it as the Spirit leads.


Quote:
I guess you may have a problem with that as will many other theologians, scholars etc because so much time and resource has been invested into fashioning all this stuff and now to be told that it is useless? THAT WOULD SUCK for anyone who had done all this and has come to the realization or been convicted that it has not been born of the spirit and has been a waste of time.



Laziness in study is no virtue. Study is hard work. Piecing the scriptures together by the Spirit to form the huge picture God has presented takes a lot of mental RAM. It takes a mind fully fixed upon God. The reason why there is so much despair now over the whole understanding of salvation is because people want a 10 cent answer to a million dollar question. Bible issues are very important. Again, it does not have to be one or the other. Paul was a greater theologian than all we will ever know. Yet, God used him in the Spirit in ways we can't imagine. Was Paul's study time at the feet of Gamalial a hindrance to the Holy Ghost or an asset? When God anoints a man who is greatly versed in the understanding of His word- the enemy is in trouble. again, the enemy wants it one or the other- but God can raise up men with BOTH knowledge and anointing.


Quote:
In the spirit these things become literal and of course if you look at them any other way they will look like nice metaphors or similies and all. The scriptures are so simple to comprehend in the spirit. We've taken them, concluded that they are too simple and have set about the business of complicating them to the point where if you have not been to some bible college or been taught by a theologian or scholar they make no sense. There are some scholars and theologians out there that indeed are teaching as per the leading of the spirit but a lot of them are not as evidenced by the lack of manifestation of power in all the many books that have been written.



I am Pentecostal. If you cut me I would bleed Pentecost. Yet, what is it as Pentecostal's that so many thing that study is contrary to the Spirit?

Quote:
God's hand has been heavy on me concerning this (yes literal hand has been pressing on my spiritual body) to speak forth. He's allowed me to feel the grief He feels, the indignation at all this and at first I paid no attention to it but now I feel these things all the time. Man I pray that you all get to feel what I've felt or seen what God has shown me and even greater things in your own lives. You will never look at God the same again once you've experience Him in the spirit. You get hooked on it once you realize that there is no substitute for meeting God in the spirit.

Seek God in the spirit and you will want nothing less.



[i]Beyond the sacred page we seek Thee Lord...[/i]. That is the opening prayer to one of Bro. Ron's Rora 2003 messages. There are certain things that are appropriate on these forums and others are not. What I mean is, things can only get so 'prophetic' in a scene like this. There is much teaching here- but true ministry is more readily realized in settings when people are face to face. Don't interpret silence in these things as absence of these things. There is a time and a place for everything.

God Bless,

-Robert


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2005/4/11 8:53Profile
Delboy
Member



Joined: 2004/2/8
Posts: 199
Worthing UK

 Re:

I must agree with Robertw although Ron does not need us to defend him.
IRONMAN you are indeed comming across like iron,...please do listen to some of bro Ron's sermons they will bless you
I do believe he really does talk the talk and walk the walk!


_________________
derek Eyre

 2005/4/11 9:17Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

bro Robert

Quote:
It is not a virtue to forsake valid resources in order to make a show of great spiritual insight. Actually, Bro. Ron has received revelation from God on issues such as Propitiation and the Red Heifer and then after being a good Berean to insure what was revealed squared with scripture was accused of looking to validate his teaching by quoting concuring resources later. He has taken it from both ends of the stick.



I'm not saying that we should forsake valid sources but rather use valid sources that are inspired by the spirit of God and not all sources are inspired by the spirit. That is one of the things that God has been pressing heavily on me. I'm usure as to why He would use me in this capacity at this time except that He feels it necessary for someone to learn something, I have learned much I know that. Perhaps it is more for me to learn something or for us all to learn something.I'm not underestimating Ron, or assuming I know much about him. If his teachings are inspired by the spirit then there is nothing to worry about. It is vital that they be because he has taught and will teach many. It's just that in the days ahead the leading of the spirit in all things will have to take on centre stage. For teachers it is vital because as the mouthpieces of God, they will affect more people than most.

Quote:
Laziness in study is no virtue. Study is hard work. Piecing the scriptures together by the Spirit to form the huge picture God has presented takes a lot of mental RAM. It takes a mind fully fixed upon God. The reason why there is so much despair now over the whole understanding of salvation is because people want a 10 cent answer to a million dollar question. Bible issues are very important. Again, it does not have to be one or the other. Paul was a greater theologian than all we will ever know. Yet, God used him in the Spirit in ways we can't imagine. Was Paul's study time at the feet of Gamalial a hindrance to the Holy Ghost or an asset? When God anoints a man who is greatly versed in the understanding of His word- the enemy is in trouble. again, the enemy wants it one or the other- but God can raise up men with BOTH knowledge and anointing.



I'm not advocating laziness in study at all, rather I'm for diligent study as per the instruction of the holy spirit, anything outside of that serves no purpose. Paul's epistles were written simply to be understood by a largly unlearned group of people but the interpretations of those epistles and others in the word have become exceedingly complicated to the point that one almost needs to go to bible school to understand them. That concerns me it makes certain things almost inaccessible to the masses who may not have the time/money to do such. it seems to me the bible is a lot simpler than we make it out to be and that concerns me. Surely a revelation in the spirit which God intends to be shared with everyone would be simple for the concerned persons to understand? Maybe my concerns are unfounded. It's just that lately in God's dealings with me He has shown me that things are a lot simpler than they appear. Paul studying under Gamalial was useful to him after he allowed the holy spirit to lead Him appropriately. I may be wrong but didn't Paul lean more on the holy spirit than what he had learned on that he spoke as the holy spirit instructed him to? Did not all that he learned as a pharisee now have life because the holy spirit breathed life into them?

Quote:
Beyond the sacred page we seek Thee Lord.... That is the opening prayer to one of Bro. Ron's Rora 2003 messages. There are certain things that are appropriate on these forums and others are not. What I mean is, things can only get so 'prophetic' in a scene like this. There is much teaching here- but true ministry is more readily realized in settings when people are face to face. Don't interpret silence in these things as absence of these things. There is a time and a place for everything.



I feel that bro Robert. Perhaps God is weighing heavily on me these things for the purpose of planting seeds (I know that sounds cliche and linked to many aprosperity gospel) for many a prohpetic ministry which He will raise up for the times ahead. God has been showing me all sorts of things in the spirit which speak of an unprecedentadly powerful move on God's part in the days ahead. I'm not sure when it will happen but I feel it to be imminent.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2005/4/11 11:29Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

Quote:
I must agree with Robertw although Ron does not need us to defend him.

Quote:
IRONMAN you are indeed comming across like iron,...please do listen to some of bro Ron's sermons they will bless you



This dialogue with Ron (or monologue) is not an attack. If his teachings are inspired by the spirit then it is all good. The thing that God has placed on my heart is the importance of being sure that all teachings concerning Him are inspired by the holy spirit. for teachers it is vital because many will learn from them. There are a lot of sources out there which may seem valid but are not inspired by the spirit, the only sources that are truly valid are those that have been inspired by the spirit and we all need to find those ones from the myriad of others. That's what this is all about. God has been laying this heavily on me I feel because the teachers are about to get very busy in this new season and this is how they should prepare, be sure that they are being led by the spirit in all things.


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2005/4/11 11:59Profile
Delboy
Member



Joined: 2004/2/8
Posts: 199
Worthing UK

 Re:

Dear friend, you responded

Quote:
The thing that God has placed on my heart is the importance of being sure that all teachings concerning Him are inspired by the holy spirit.


How on earth will you manage to police all teachings out there?
I think you may have a big job on your hands...surely we are to take our lead from scripture....with all humbleness and meekness,Bro Ron is as i said walking the walk and talking the talk
ironman or son of thunder whats all that about? :-)


_________________
derek Eyre

 2005/4/11 18:25Profile
IRONMAN
Member



Joined: 2004/6/15
Posts: 1924
IN HEAVENLY PLACES WITH JESUS

 Re:

Delboy
Oh no, my job isn't to police the teachings here, just to pass on the message from on high to be sure that we are lead in the spirit in all things, teaching included. And for one who is a teacher people learn from them and if the lesson is wrong the people are misled and we have a bad situation. The scriptures themselves are a product of the spirit of God and require that same spirit for interpretation hence the need to be led in the spirit. It is everyone's responsibility who is doing anything concerning God that they be lead by His spirit in these things so that they line up with His will and are thus pleasing to Him. does that help?

IRONMAN, an old nickname from college, I worked out a lot hence IRON MAN, Son of Thunder, it is said God's voice can be like thunder, and I am an of Him. See now :) Um if I may ask, where does delboy come from?


_________________
Farai Bamu

 2005/4/11 19:16Profile
Jimm
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 498
Harare, ZIMBABWE

 Re: Barnabas, Simeon, Lucius, Manaen and Saul

Dear friends

I hope you will forgive our (Farai and I) outbursts and charge it to our lack of experience rather than our intent. We are trying to fit into a difficult ministry (as are all ministries at some point). All that was said was said in good faith, but whether our level of faith allows us to see, as we should is another question. Watchman Nee had a saying, “the Spirit of Christ in me will not fight the Spirit of Christ in you”. I am embarrassed when I find myself in a quarrel with brethren because I have misrepresented God’s attributes and probably at some point, I have been carnal in my judgment. “In the mouth of two or three witnesses” has its weight even on the forum setting and now that you have stated your point of view my dear brothers, your concerns are both noted and well founded. I think this is a misunderstanding more than anything else… “Philologos”, “Jimm” and “IRONMAN” are at best shadows of the person behind them and we cannot really make any fair judgments of a persons entire character based on what we see here alone.

I have respect for most of the SI members and your opinions are meaningful to me and, as part of the body of Christ, your rebukes are taken seriously. Farai and I are in very close intimate fellowship and what he says usually is what I would say so indirectly a rebuke to him reflects also on me, and now that his mouth has spoken for our side, a second mouth (mine) will now speak. Please bear with me as I attempt to explain our position.

When we started fellowship with each other I was just learning to listen to the voice of the Lord. He woke me up one morning and told me, “go and pray with your brother”. That evening we prayed together and we both filled with the Spirit and instructed to pray with a third brother and thus began our (the three of us) prophetic ministry. We have largely been ministering to each other mostly as the Lord has been teaching us something about his church. There is nothing special or outstanding about any of us but as it so happens it pleased the Lord to give us this office not “unto ourselves” but to the church; that is, we consider ourselves the property of Christ directly and indirectly (His Church). All the messages he has given us have been confirmed by our spirits bearing witness and with others signs of the Spirit.

The signs of the Spirit began subtly as we began to be in an agony (spiritual) whilst breaking bread with each other as we partook of the Lords super. This was one of the first prophetic signs experience by us all as we read scriptures and broke bread in tears. As our fellowship tightened we continued to follow the guidance of the Spirit, listening to messages from SI and reading articles to each other written by other saints and the praying, worshiping and prophesying. The pace at which this all happened was staggering and humbling and, as if over night our entire outlook on Christianity had changed. We have hardly had time to stop and examine our paradigms. The theme our walk began with was, (thus saith the Lord) “judgment begins with the house of God” and for this reason, fellowship has been difficult on our souls and egos. There is only so much you can hide about yourself in this setting and the discernment and rebukes are at times uncomfortable and always humbling. It has not been a “you must save the church” type gathering and in fact all the lessons we give out are lessons that have been given to and applied to us first.

Quote:
Beyond the sacred page we seek Thee Lord.... That is the opening prayer to one of Bro. Ron's Rora 2003 messages. There are certain things that are appropriate on these forums and others are not. What I mean is, things can only get so 'prophetic' in a scene like this. There is much teaching here- but true ministry is more readily realized in settings when people are face to face. Don't interpret silence in these things as absence of these things. There is a time and a place for everything.



You are completely right here Brother Robert; “things can only get so 'prophetic' in a scene like this”. The weight of the message is largely lost on the forum. Art Katz once said:

“Prophets and teachers rarely get along, the reason being that prophets are too broad minded and concerned with ‘the bigger picture’ and teachers are too narrow minded and concerned with the, ‘line upon line precept upon precept’. The prophet is in danger of not being able to stop and recognize the fine details of the plan of God and the teacher is in danger of forgetting the purpose of the fine details with which he is concerned. Antioch was such an perfect picture not only because of the diversities of races but this captured me more than anything else, ‘prophets and teachers…ministering to the Lord’ (Acts 13). This is more than just singing hymns but it is a deep spiritual union horizontally first (with each other) and then vertically (unto the lord).”

I inquired of the Lord as to what he source of our disagreement was and He explained it to me thus, “The are many false prophets that have gone into the world and they (teachers) and there are many false teachers that have gone into the world and you (prophets) recognize that. Be patient with each other and leave the separating of the wheat from the tares to me.”

We are blessed with Sermonindex and the earnest prayer of my spirit is that we would recognize in each other more similarities than differences. The essence of what Farai speaks of comes from a realization that much of his own time has been wasted with false and empty doctrine and he has genuinely been given instruction to “try the spirits whither they are of God”. The trying is sometimes very brash but, hopefully we have nothing to hide and do not mind answering the tough questions. Concerning the things of God, Farai does not do the ‘wondering in himself’ thing very well, he will confront you head on and demand an explanation not for his own good or ego but in the interest of getting to the bottom of the issue quickly without beating around the bush . He will tell exactly what he thinks and he does so in good faith as he tries to discern what is behind the shadow. It is nothing personal and, even I get the old “Son of thunder” sword sometimes as he ‘withstood me to the face’, but I am better for it. The essence of Farai, at least now is this;

Quote:
God's hand has been heavy on me concerning this (yes literal hand has been pressing on my spiritual body) to speak forth. He's allowed me to feel the grief He feels, the indignation at all this and at first I paid no attention to it but now I feel these things all the time. Man I pray that you all get to feel what I've felt or seen what God has shown me and even greater things in your own lives. You will never look at God the same again once you've experience Him in the spirit. You get hooked on it once you realize that there is no substitute for meeting God in the spirit.




In the love of Christ

James




_________________
James Gabriel Gondai Dziya

 2005/4/11 20:17Profile





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