SermonIndex Audio Sermons
SermonIndex - Promoting Revival to this Generation
Give To SermonIndex
Discussion Forum : General Topics : The Sin of Women Preachers

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 | 11 | 12 Next Page )
PosterThread









 Re:

God's role for women was to be a 'helpmeet' in everything that he does but unfortunately, men have excluded women in the important work of Bible translation and that is why we have so many errors of translation regarding womens role in the church. The church is sadly suffering a great deal because men did not obey God during the tranlation work they took over as 'mens' work by originally excluding women from learning the original languages..


GOD'S WORD TO WOMEN Dr K Bushnell.

The world, the Church and women
are suffering sadly from
woman’s lack of ability to read the Word of God in
its original languages. There are
truths therein that speak to the deepest needs of a
woman’s heart, and that give light
upon problems that women alone are called upon to s
olve. Without knowledge of the
original, on the part of a sufficient number of wom
en to influence the translation of the
Bible in accordance with their perception of the me
aning of these truths, these needed
passages will remain uninterpreted, or misinterpret
ed.
14. Such truths man is not equipped to understand,
much less to set forth to the
understanding of women, for, as the very learned Ca
non Payne-Smith has said: “Men
never do understand anything [he refers to Bible tr
anslation] unless already in their
minds they have some kindred ideas.”
(12)

 2014/2/5 3:14
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re: Krautfrau

Quote: "God's role for women was to be a 'helpmeet' in everything that he does but unfortunately, men have excluded women in the important work of Bible translation and that is why we have so many errors of translation regarding womens role in the church."

This absolute nonsense! The implication is that all translations are dishonest because they are done by men.
Following this logic we had better let children translate the text so that the instructions to children are 'properly' translated!


_________________
Dave

 2014/2/5 5:21Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!

 Re: The Sin of Women Preachers


I have a question... how many who believe that it is a sin for women to preach have been baptized in the Holy Spirit (Ghost) and operate in the gifts?

I only ask because I believe that we could be discussing something that we don't know we are discussing. But if I'm wrong, then I'll throw away the results to my quick study!!

God bless,
Lisa


_________________
Lisa

 2014/2/5 6:54Profile









 Re:

How can translations be as good as possible when only men did the work? It is a known fact that men and women look at things in entirely different ways at times. I did not state for the sake of this discussion, they were dishonest - you have added that yourself.

 2014/2/5 7:32
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re: to be silent or not to be

It’s possible to meticulously observe a text while transgressing a host of other texts – and indeed, the SPIRIT of the text. Note the following text, which is chronically ignored, much to the harm of the church:

“They must be SILENCED, because they are disrupting whole households by teaching things they ought not to teach—and that for the sake of dishonest gain.” Titus 1:11

Who must be silenced? It is those who are preaching a “different gospel” - those who are living by the letter of the law, and trying to make the church conform. The historical church has been chronically plagued by such preachers. And this has caused no end of divisions and disasters.

Regarding the text under debate, on female “preachers”, it is entirely possible that the text is being pulled out of context and viewed through the “letter of the law” rather than the “spirit of the law”. Let’s admit, our minds can conjure up a host of rational reasons for a pretext – with no end of prooftexting . But if the FRUIT of this interpretation produces disruption, divisions in the church, if it stifles the Spirit, and hinders the full functioning of the church, then Satan is winning…… and maybe it’s time to be SILENCED – and go back to the drawing board: quietly sit at the feet of the Master, like Mary did (contrary to social customs for women in that day).

Thoughts to ponder:
What is “church”?
Who in today’s church should be silenced – but are not?

Are there times/seasons when the Spirit has silenced you or I– and why?

Diane




_________________
Diane

 2014/2/5 7:47Profile
Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

Quote: "How can translations be as good as possible when only men did the work? It is a known fact that men and women look at things in entirely different ways at times."

Now you have dug a bigger hole for yourself! Again following your logic you would have to say 'How do we know that the gospel accounts are accurately recorded seeing none of the women who were around wrote a gospel account'

Once you go down that road there is no limit to the error you can get into.

Now hear me! I'm not saying women cannot or should not be involved in bible translation, BUT you cannot claim error on interpretation you don't like just because it was done by men.

BTW I would not trust Jesse Penn Lewis to interpret anything! The War on the Saints is a book full of subjective unbiblical superstition.


_________________
Dave

 2014/2/5 8:32Profile
a-servant
Member



Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re:

2 quotes: "unfortunately, men have excluded women in the important work of Bible translation and that is why we have so many errors of translation regarding womens role in the church"

that's not even funny. Heydave was too kind to you.

and additionally:

"How can translations be as good as possible when only men did the work? It is a known fact that men and women look at things in entirely different ways at times. I did not state for the sake of this discussion, they were dishonest - you have added that yourself."

oh my goodness, gender specific valuations, did you ever read a Bible at all?

My dear woman, you absolutely do not understand how God's government works.

Ephesians 5:23  For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body.

If you would follow that, you would understand that men are raised to go to places that are and remain foreign to you. That requires humbleness to realize and understanding of the facts of the basic conditions of man and woman. We are equal but we are not the same, we have different jobs to do here on earth.

 2014/2/5 8:46Profile









 Re:

And women are raised to go to places that are foreign to men.

Please be specific regarding which texts you disagree over regarding Bushell's interpretation.

http://godswordtowomen.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/gods_word_to_women.pdf

Jessie Penn-Lewis is discussing the interpretation of Dr K Bushnell, a past Hebrew and Greek scholar, not her own as she was not a scholar as far as I am aware.


"HEADSHIP

Again we find the marginal reference Gen. 3:16 attached to the words in 1 Cor. 11:3, "the head of the woman is the man.'' But we must not forget that "at Corinth the church used the Septuagint Greek version and would read Gen. 3:16 as 'Thou art turning to thy husband, and he 'will' rule over thee.' ''so it would not convey to the Christians at Corinth what it does in our day." Now had we always read Gen 3:16, "writes Dr. Bushnell," 'he will rule over thee' instead of 'he shall rule over thee' and known that the verb is a simple future (as all ancient versions testify), ignorant, careless, or dishonest interpreters centuries ago would not have thought to show that this rule was God-ordained...



We question, then, the correctness of placing Gen. 3:16 against the words 'of a wife the husband is the head,' as interpreting it to mean, 'of the wife the husband is the ruler.'



But what is the New Testament meaning of the "headship" of the husband? (Not, let us notice, of "man" over woman in general, as the use of the word aner (husband) in 1 Cor. 11:3-14, makes clear.) Dr. Bushnell devotes an entire lesson to showing the use of the word "head" in the Old Testament, but we can look only briefly at her clear explanation of the word in the New Testament as interpreted for the Christian - and only the Christian - by the analogy of Christ as the Head of the Church. She asks in what sense Christ is described as "head" to His Church. Then he points out that Col. 2:19 describes it most fully. He is "the head, from which all the body by joints and bands having nourishment ministered, and knit together, increaseth with the increase of God.'' Neither here nor in Eph. 4:15 is Christ's government referred to but His headship as the support, nourishment and builder of the Body. In Eph. 1:22, His headship as a "rule'' is clear, but this is over principalities and powers (see Eph. 1:21, 22), which are placed under his feet. But we are never told that this is the place for His Church! God gave Him to be "head over all things to the church which is his body, the fullness of him that filleth all in all.'' The place of the Church is then shown as ''raised up with him," and made to "sit with him,'' to share in his rule over the ''all things" placed under His feet (Eph. 2:6).



It was true in those days, says Dr. Bushnell, that the husband was ahead of his wife, but this made it all the more obligatory upon him that he should also be a " head" after the pattern of Christ, to support and lift up his wife to his own level. The words of Eph. 5:33 concerning this obligation are very beautiful in the original. They read, " Let every one of you in particular, so love his wife even as himself, in order that [expressed in Greek by a single Greek word denoting design] the wife may reverence [or revere] her husband. "This is the key to "headship." The true ''headship" is won by self-sacrificing love, even as Christ won His Church - not by rule and domination - but by laying down His life for her. Reverence is gained by love; it can never be demanded as a right, nor created in the one who is to give it in any other way than by being "ahead" in manifesting the character of Christ. Therefore in the Church of Christ "even as Christ" (Eph. 5:23) is the meaning of the headship described by the Apostle Paul-a headship which most truly shows forth the divine pattern of Christ and His Church."

 2014/2/5 9:06
wayneman
Member



Joined: 2009/1/24
Posts: 453
Michigan

 Re:

"I have a question... how many who believe that it is a sin for women to preach have been baptized in the Holy Spirit (Ghost) and operate in the gifts?"

People who do not believe that the gifts of the Spirit are for today have subtracted First Corinthians 12 and 14 by saying they are "not addressed to this Dispensation," which gives me a great idea: let's subtract First Corinthians 11:3-16 and say that it is not addressed to our dispensation!

If dispensationalism is not our cup of tea, we can resort to textual criticism:

The anti-woman passages in 1 Corinthians are obviously interpolations inserted by priestly scribes, and not written by Paul. Chapter 11 vs. 3-16 appears incongruously in the middle of a passage about “eating and drinking.” If you subtract 3-16, verses 2 and 17 fit seamlessly together, with an ironic parallel use of the phrase “I praise you.”

Likewise, remove 1 Cor. 14:34-38 and verses 33 and 39 mesh together perfectly.

1 Timothy 2:11-15 can just as easily be explained away.

Since it is so easy to get rid of Bible verses that we don't like, why do so many men insist on retaining the verses about keeping women in subjection?

The OP that started this thread is so venomous and maniacally written that it is painfully obvious the author has psychological problems. May I suggest, Heydave and a-servant, that that is the real issue here?

At any rate, the Sword of the Lord Publishing/Bumpkin Books attitude is incompatible with Paul's attitude toward women.

"You are all sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus, for all of you were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, male nor female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3: 26-28

Paul names at least 13 women among his fellow-laborers: Phoebe (who he calls a Deacon – same title as Timothy), Junia (whom he calls an Apostle! Rom. 16:7), Tryphena and Tryphosa, Dorcas, Chloe, Rufus’s mother, Nereus’s sister, Mary, Persis, Euodia and Syntyche and, of course, Priscilla. (Rom. 16; Phil. 4:2-3; 1 Cor. 1:11)

Misogynists will have to stick with Bumpkin Books for support; Paul is not your friend.


_________________
Wayne Kraus

 2014/2/5 9:39Profile









 Re:

Here we have an example of 'headship' from the OT and explained in God's Word To Women which shows that it is the one who is in obedience to God who is right.

"150. In Genesis 21:11 we are told that it was " very grievous" to Abraham to do what Sarah demanded. Did the Lord remind her that she must rather obey him? No; He told
Abraham that he must obey Sarah. The authority was
vested, not in a "sex," but in the one who took the right moral view on the question of polygamy. And so it always will be; God is with the right; not the sex. Then recall the case of Abigail (1 Samuel 25.) She knew her husband was a foolish and worthless man, and frankly said so. She did not 61 even consult him when she took "two hundred loaves and two bottles of wine, five sheep ready dressed, five measures of parched corn, a hundred clusters of grapes, and two hundred cakes of figs," and gave them to David, knowing full well that her husband had just refused to give David anything. Under ordinary conditions, had she had a worthy husband, she would not have done this. Nabal did not measure up to the occasion, and his masculinity counted for nothing, as to authority over a wife wiser than himself. The whole Bible story goes to show that Abigail did the right and prudent thing in going against what she well knew was her husband's will, to do what she could not have done with his knowledge. She showed moral courage. She averted a dire calamity. David praised her for it, and Scripture shows its approval'—for, "It came to pass that about ten days after, the Lord smote Nabal that he died."

 2014/2/5 9:41





©2002-2024 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Revival to this Generation.
Privacy Policy