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ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

QUOTE:
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On the other hand, a woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head. Now look at verse 15 and you will see plainly that God is not talking about a woman wearing a hat or veil. Verse 15 says: "But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering." A woman, when she prays, should have a covering, some symbol that marks her as an obedient and surrendered wife or daughter. Her long hair is given her for a covering, and a woman who does not have her head covered in that way dishonors her head. And verse 6 says that it is a shame for a woman to be shorn, and she ought to be covered. This symbolic covering or veil for a woman is long hair. Long hair is a mark of a woman's womanliness in God's sight, and is plainly given her for that express purpose, as verse 15 says.
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As a woman who covers her head with a fabric covering I find this interpretation wearisome and erroneous.

Ok, you won't accept what I said because I am a female, so be it. But it does go without saying that men do have a responsibility to be Biblical in their interpretation of the WORD.

ginnyrose


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Sandra Miller

 2014/2/3 18:05Profile
KPYee
Member



Joined: 2012/3/12
Posts: 87


 Re:

Its best we deal with the Scriptures quoted by repentperish that women should not preach in the Church.. Since we accept Scriptures as the final authority on all matters pertaining to life and godliness and certainly to the character of the worship service we must focus on what the Bible teaches on this issue. We should not allow ourselves to be diverted by our experiences .. They dont supersede the authority and finality of the Scriptures

 2014/2/3 18:39Profile
wayneman
Member



Joined: 2009/1/24
Posts: 453
Michigan

 Re:

I really wish you guys would read Mrs. Penn-Lewis's "Magna Carta of Woman." It shows that the passages we use to keep women in line have been wildly mistranslated and misunderstood.

http://lighthouselibrary.com/read.php?sel=3138&searchfor=||PENN-LEWIS


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Wayne Kraus

 2014/2/3 20:54Profile









 Re:

Thank you very much wayneman for that excellent article/book by Mrs P-Lewis including the scholarly exergesis by Dr Bushnell regarding the texts in question.

I am working my way slowly through it and it has been extremely illuminating. it is one of the most important papers I have read and will be of much help to me during the theological training on which I have embarked.

ginnyrose, rather than asking men here to read it, I think you should be making that request to all of the women that you know especially those who have received seminary or Bible school training. Not many men are going to be willing to stick their necks out, against the tide, but the more women that are educated regarding the matter, and speak out the better. It is much easier to silence the few. It is well overdue that the subjection of women in the Christian church, which is repeating that of the Jewish religion, catches up with the times and is rejected as with other discriminations. Just a small example:

"Therefore the words "it is not permitted'' and "as also saith the law" must refer to some "rule'' outside of Scripture. There was no other but the Oral Law of the Jews, appealed to by the Judaizers in the church in their efforts at that time to bring Christianity back within the confines of Judaism. That the words "as saith the law" referred to the Oral Law of the Jews is recognized by some scholars, for a well known lexicographer, in his Greek-Latin Lexicon, says that "as saith the law" refers to the Jewish Oral Law, which did teach the silencing of women. The Talmud also taught that it was '' a shame for a woman to let her voice be heard among men" almost the very words used in the language quoted by the Apostle. Again, the reference to the "law" is, of itself, sufficient to show that the Apostle, who labored so earnestly to free the Christian Church from the very shadow of Judaism, as his epistles show, was not expressing his own conviction in the language attributed to him. Paul never appealed to the " law" for the guidance of the Church of Christ, but, on the contrary, declared that believers were " dead to the law by the body of Christ" (Rom. 7:4), that they might serve in newness of spirit and not the oldness of the letter (v. 6). Then how could he say consistently, "Let the women keep silence...as also saith the law," even were such a prohibition to be found in the law of Moses?

Verses 14 and 15: "Doth not even nature itself teach you, that, if a man have long hair, it is a dishonour to him.� But if a woman have long hair, it is a glory to her: for her hair is given her for a covering." A simple statement in these verses has again been turned into a question by the punctuation added "centuries later than when St. Paul wrote these words." The Apostle thus appears to make statements that are obviously contrary to the facts of nature and of history. For, as Dr. Bushnell says, ''nature" does not teach that if a man has "long hair" it is "a dishonour" to him, e.g., millions of men in China wear long hair, and ''nature has never taught them that it is a shame." Furthermore, the Corinthians to whom Paul was writing boasted that they were ''descendants of the longhaired Achaeans, celebrated in the Greek poem, Homer's Iliad." It would therefore be a most strange question for Paul to put to them, while to Jews long hair in fulfillment of religious vows (Num. 6:1-21) was a glory, not a shame.



But why does Paul refer to hair at all? Again we need to understand Jewish customs. Perpetually Paul had to be countering not only the customs but the influence of Judaistic thought upon Christians only gradually emerging into apprehension of the full liberty of the gospel. The Apostle had just said that a woman should have "authority over her own head'' to veil or unveil as she judged best. But the Oral Law had made unveiling so disgraceful a thing that Christian women would find it difficult to put away the veil, even when circumstances were favorable to doing so. The Apostle then meets this difficulty by saying that the woman already had a veil that was a glory to her; her own hair and so she need not be ashamed of uncovering it, whatever the Judaizers might say."

THE MAGNA CHARTA OF WOMAN BY: JESSIE PENN-LEWIS

I have ordered Dr Bushnell's book 'God's Gift to Women' which I am sure will be an interesting read.

 2014/2/4 5:45
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!

 Re:


I hate to disappoint you Wayneman but I have learned that God is the only one who can change men’s minds about this sort of stuff.

Because while repentperish and savanna debate it from their comfy computer chairs, those women who do actually do preach the word of God are actually out there DOING IT and they not worried one little bit about this thread!

I have to go to work now to teach and then tomorrow I'll get to preach!! LOL

God bless you brother!!
Lisa


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Lisa

 2014/2/4 7:11Profile
roadsign
Member



Joined: 2005/5/2
Posts: 3777


 Re:

Quote:
… are actually out there DOING IT …



…often at the risk of their lives. “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!” Rom. 10:15


Nowhere in scripture is “preaching the good news” prohibited by a segment of the Church of Jesus Christ.

Diane


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Diane

 2014/2/4 12:07Profile
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 980
Pineville, LA

 Re:

I find this entire thread to be somewhat in error. Here is why:

Most everyone is reading all of these posts through the lenses of a single-pastor led church model. This model is definitely not the end-goal advocated by scripture. Read Titus and Timothy and you will see what I mean.

Men should be leading and directing the church. This is scriptural and commanded again and again. They are the ones who are appointed elders/bishops and who oversee the direction of the church, correcting, exhorting, rebuking, teaching, etc. Women are definitely allowed to teach in the scriptures--but only other women. They are most certainly allowed to share the Gospel with anyone. Not only that, but if I observe a woman's actions and see the pattern of her godly life or hear some wonderful truths out of her mouth and I learn, I will not fault her for that.

I do believe that women are to be silent in church and if they have any questions, they should ask their husbands at home, who should--notice I said "should"--be VERY WELL qualified to answer those questions. I don't push women being silent in my church primarily because I can't seem to get the men to do their jobs and be qualified to actually teach their families.

Maybe, men, if we were doing our jobs, the women wouldn't feel the need to do them for us. Maybe if you were sitting at home teaching scripture and showing your families what it means to run a race, keeping your eyes fixed on Jesus, instead of doing whatever you feel like or deferring that responsibility to your preacher or sunday school teacher, then maybe your wives wouldn't feel the burden of something they were not designed to do. Maybe if you would spend every bit of energy you have fighting to see your family raised in a godly way, instead of sitting on the couch to "rest" in front of a TV after work--even if it costs you sleep, comfort, or life--then maybe things would be better.

Plumbing has 0% to do with this situation. It is the NATURE of men and women, as God designed them, and the directives of God in Scripture that has everything to do with this. I don't fault a women for not being a male, and I don't fault a male for not being a women. They are faulted if they try to be what they are not whether physically, spiritually, or authoritatively. We need to stop looking at this as if the only difference between men and women are X's and Y's. God ingrained those differences in our very characters.

 2014/2/4 18:06Profile
MichaelLiao
Member



Joined: 2011/4/24
Posts: 214
Toronto, Ontario, Canada

 Re:

Can someone please weigh in on Carter Conlon's wife being a preacher at Time Square Church?


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Michael Liao

 2014/2/4 19:43Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!

 Re: roadsign

Quote:
roadsign wrote:
Nowhere in scripture is “preaching the good news” prohibited by a segment of the Church of Jesus Christ.


Amen Diane!


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Lisa

 2014/2/5 2:07Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3699
East TN for now!

 Re: The Sin of Women Preachers

Quote:
havok20x wrote:
Maybe, men, if we were doing our jobs, the women wouldn't feel the need to do them for us.


I present to you, in the love of God, this is the crux of this whole debate... that women do not “feel the need” to do a supposed man’s job, but that they are called, gifted and instructed by the Living God to do so.

God bless,
Sister Lisa


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Lisa

 2014/2/5 2:08Profile





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