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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Please give one clear scriptural verse for a pretrib resurrection

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budgie
Member



Joined: 2011/2/25
Posts: 266


 Re:

In Jerusalem and Palestine today with all of the conflict and bombing people are marrying and living a life in total ignorance of God and of the events to come.
The rest of the world where there is wealth and luxury live in the same way, totally oblivious to the prophetic events that are to take place.
It is for us to be Christ on this earth and be salvation to those in darkness, that they may see the Light of Christ and no longer be in darkness. It is only to those that are in darkness and living in selfish desires that the Coming of Jesus will be as a thief.

 2014/1/28 6:20Profile
budgie
Member



Joined: 2011/2/25
Posts: 266


 Re:

NO ONE HAS YET GIVEN A CLEAR SCRIPTURAL VERSE THAT CLEARLY SUPPORTS A PRETRIB RESURRECTION.
Much theory but no scripture.
HEBREWS says this
Heb 6:2 Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment.
IT IS TO BE A DOCTRINE OF THE RESURRECTION OF THE DEAD not a doctrine of (caught up)
Mat 24:29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Mat 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
Mat 24:31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
AND
2Th 2:1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
2Th 2:2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
2Th 2:5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
2Th 2:8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:
Rev 19:19 And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.
Rev 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.
Rev 11:15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

 2014/1/28 6:22Profile
budgie
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Joined: 2011/2/25
Posts: 266


 Re:

The reason we watch, and wait, and be alert and ready is because we could die tomorrow, if we died tomorrow would we be ready? today is the day to not harden our hearts, today is the day to be trusting, today is the day to be ready so that we can give an answer to a dieing soul and bring Salvation to another Human being. Once we have died we cannot change our destiny, let us live for Christ now and declare His Love now, a person who is ready, watching, and waiting is a person who is close to the heart of God and is living in Christ, comforted because Jesus has warned us of events to come the same as Jesus warned His disciples of events that would come in their life. Let us not despise Prophecy especially when it is the Word of God. Look at all of the Prophecies of Christ at His first coming, look at all of the Prophecies of His second coming, I want to be a person that is aware of Prophecies so that I can give an encouraging word from the word of God when the events are fulfilled. It is not just about when Jesus comes it is about our life could be taken today are we ready now?
Luk 21:34 And take heed to yourselves, lest at any time your hearts be overcharged with surfeiting, and drunkenness, and cares of this life, and so that day come upon you unawares.
Luk 21:35 For as a snare shall it come on all them that dwell on the face of the whole earth.

 2014/1/28 6:54Profile









 Re:

Spot on, Budgie. We are to be ready today for the Lord could come at any time and require our life. We are not to try to figure out timelines. It is a waste of time. But, it's not a waste of time to be abiding in the Lord each day, thereby being ready to leave this earth.

As I mentioned, before:

The only way to prepare for the Second Coming of Christ is to receive Christ and participate in His life, daily.

The effects of pretribulational premillennial "rapture" should be avoided.

The effects in the Body are divisiveness, disunity and intolerance. These emanate from arrogance, superiority and gnosticism causing people to adopt an escapist mentality, and to avoid and withdraw from society. The Church becomes disengaged, having a negative attitude toward society. The Church then becomes an organization, tossing out life preservers. All this from errant ecclesiology.

 2014/1/28 9:13
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953


 Re:

Saints, I am not into this pre/post trib arguments. My belief is based on Matthew 24-29.

But I have a question here, do you all believe that great tribulation time will be a time when God will pour his wrath upon the people? Or is it only the belief of PreTrib group? What is the scriptural proof of great tribulation including God's wrath?


_________________
Sreeram

 2014/1/29 1:23Profile









 Re:

This is not an answer to you Sree, but I had this thought that no one really knows what the difference between tribulation or great tribulation is. Many saints who have been tortured and killed in each century probably thought they were in great tribulation. And who would tell them they were wrong?

But, back to your question. Pre-trib, post trib, pre-wrath, mid-trib, it doesn't matter. The Bible does talk about God's wrath being poured out.

Here are some scriptures you can study in Revelation about wrath. (I haven't checked but has the word "wrath" been stricken from "modern" Bibles?)

Rev_6:16 And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:

Rev_6:17 For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?

Rev_11:18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.

Rev_12:12 Therefore rejoice, ye heavens, and ye that dwell in them. Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! for the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, because he knoweth that he hath but a short time.

Rev_14:8 And there followed another angel, saying, Babylon is fallen, is fallen, that great city, because she made all nations drink of the wine of the wrath of her fornication.

Rev_14:10 The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

Rev_14:19 And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.

Rev_15:1 And I saw another sign in heaven, great and marvellous, seven angels having the seven last plagues; for in them is filled up the wrath of God.

Rev_15:7 And one of the four beasts gave unto the seven angels seven golden vials full of the wrath of God, who liveth for ever and ever.

Rev_16:1 And I heard a great voice out of the temple saying to the seven angels, Go your ways, and pour out the vials of the wrath of God upon the earth.

Rev_16:19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
Rev_18:3 For all nations have drunk of the wine of the wrath of her fornication, and the kings of the earth have committed fornication with her, and the merchants of the earth are waxed rich through the abundance of her delicacies.

Rev_19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.


Here are the verses with "great tribulation" in them.

Mat_24:21 For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.

2Co_7:4 Great is my boldness of speech toward you, great is my glorying of you: I am filled with comfort, I am exceeding joyful in all our tribulation.

Rev_2:22 Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

Rev_7:14 And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

Again, I have not checked to see if "great tribulation" has been stricken from modern bibles.

 2014/1/29 1:43
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1953


 Re: just in

Starting from Rev 6 where God's wrath is spoken, is it not all about the judgment seat when his wrath will be poured? Great tribulation should be a tribulation when the greatest AntiChrist is revealed, who will lead the Church and true believers who refuse to accept his mark into his wrath. I do not see God's wrath being poured here, when the Church is still living on the earth. Why? Because we are not destined for God's wrath but for salvation (1 Thessalonians 5:9).


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Sreeram

 2014/1/29 5:04Profile
budgie
Member



Joined: 2011/2/25
Posts: 266


 Re: the sequence of events in the last days

I would encourage all to read with an open mind the books of Joel, Daniel, Revelations, Peter and Matthew as well as others to see just how much God loves us and has given us all an insight into His plan to bring deliverance to those that Love Him and walk in the paths of righteousness, as in the Old Testament whenever His children walked astray he always used a fiery trial to bring them back into His loving arms, He has always allowed events to happen to reveal what is in mans heart, it is no different today with the Church.
In the letters to the Churches in Revelations Jesus gives strong warnings and does not hold back but He also gives praise so that we may be comforted and draw near Him in true assurance.
God has always given prophecy so that we would know and be comforted in times of distress, He has not hidden from us His Plan, even today there is much that the Church is guilty of, no different to the children of Israel, look at all of the Idol worship, all of the Sin, Jesus wants us to surrender all and to allow Him to come into the darkness of our Life and bring His Life and Joy.
Judgement begins in the House of God
Pe_4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
We should truly have a Fear that would cause us to repent and allow His light to shine and reveal all of our hidden sin.
The Church has always been a picture of sacrifice and suffering from its very beginning, the exact image of Christ in His selfless walk, He is the Master.
When you read all of the above you see just how wicked mans heart can be but you also see just how much Love and trust towards Jesus that His followers have, even to the point of death.
Study His word and see His ultimate plan to destroy evil and have a Pure spotless Bride for Eternity.

 2014/1/29 5:57Profile
budgie
Member



Joined: 2011/2/25
Posts: 266


 Re: in reply to sree and wrath

First have a look at my thread on we are not appointed to Wrath and the exact places this exact Greek word is used in Revelations.
Then read Daniel and all of Revelations to see the different types of wrath that come on the earth, satan comes with great wrath, God has wrath, Jesus tramples the winepress of the wrath of God at His coming, when He also brings deliverance to those in Christ. The 2 witnesses have also been given power to bring plagues and torment on the unbelievers, the Earth is going through a great upheaval. Satans plan is to bring torment to try and destroy the faith of those in Christ and to destroy the Church of God, but we have the Victory, the blood of Jesus and the Testimony of Christ, Jesus has the keys of death and hell, death cannot separate us from the Love of God.
Rom 8:35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
Rom 8:36 As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.
Rom 8:37 Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us.
Rom 8:38 For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come,
Rom 8:39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 2014/1/29 6:08Profile









 Re:

Sree,

Those under God's wrath will persecute the Church. We are promised persecution, not wrath.

And, I don't do timelines.

You can see where timelines will lead you right here:

https://www.raptureready.com/rr-date-setters.html

 2014/1/29 9:41





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