| Re: |
Blaine: Your friends who came out of Mormonism, what is their testimony, how did they come to know Jesus?
| 2014/1/21 5:37||Profile|
| 2014/1/21 6:23||Profile|
| Re: |
Well I had a look at the links to the 'speeches' Ravi gave in at BYU and Mormon Tabernacle. I have never had any exposure to Ravi's ministry (but know of his name), so am only judging by this by this event. The one I looked at was the Mormon Tabernacle.
He is obviously a gifted orator. It seems to me that had he been speaking to a 'Christian' audience it would be 'OK'. However in the context of being invited to this place I am concerned how he emphasised the fact that despite the 'theological differences' they should be looking at how both evangelicals and Mormons should be working toward bringing a moral perspective back to the USA! Also the guy who introduced and set up the event (an ex-Mormon) said he was looking to get evangelicals and Mormons into dialogue and seem to value his being brought up in the Mormon church.
there was no challenge to the error or Mormonism and no clear definition as to the true nature of Christ.
Yes Ravi did say that it is all in Jesus, BUT Mormons are quite happy to say they believe in God and Jesus, HOWEVER they have a different Jesus and a different god(s) and a different gospel. They are a cult in it's truest sense. They are happy to read the bible, BUT the book of Mormon takes priority over the bible. Just ask them if the book of Mormon contradicts the bible, which one would they believe. They will say the Mormon book every time!
Joseph Smith was a deceiver and Mormonism is a place of demons. Would the Apostle Paul or John speak humorous and warm words to such people? I can't begin to imagine it. Look how strongly they both spoke about false prophets, false apostles, judaizers and such like. They did not compromise and say 'lets see what we have in common'.
Mormonism is not another denomination it is a demonic cult designed of Satan to lead millions into hell.
| 2014/1/21 7:32||Profile|
| Re: Arthur|
Brother I have two friends that came out of Mormonism. It would be quite a post to detail their testimonies. But suffice to say they both were born again through reading the word, particularly the gospel of John. In doing so they encountered the living Christ, the true Son of God. As a result of that encounter they both left the cult of Mormonism.
Well, one friend a brother, had already left Mormonism. He was an athiest. But he got his hands on a New Testament. In reading it he was born again. The idea of returning to Mormonism was unthinkable to him.
The other friend, a dear sister in Christ, was seeking for peace in her soul. Mormonism was not providing the answers for her. She was even considering suicide. It was reading her New Testament she became born again reading John 14. This sister had to go before a Mormon bishop's court where she was denounced a heretic. But God was with her.
Both of my friends left Mormonism and walking a solid faith walk with Jesus. They see that the Jesus of the New Testament must be preached to those caught up in the darkness of Mormonism. This is to be done in love. But the idea of partnering with Mormons or building bridges with them is unthinkable. To them to do this would be like a Moslem who has been converted to Christ trying to find common ground with Jihadist.
For those who have been converted to Christ out of Mormonism or any other cult, there is no common ground. God does not give his light and glory to demonic cults.
| 2014/1/21 9:36|
| Re: Heydave|
Brother I hope to listen to Ravi's other message today. But you have articulated more clearly what I was trying to convey in this thread.
I believe Ravi was introduced by Greg Johnson. Greg was converted to Christ out of Mormonism. But heads up a ministry called Standing Together. What this ministry seeks to do is create dialog with the Mormons and evangelicals. Thus finding "common ground" to stand together on.
The recent culture war has been a catymist to bring Mormons and evangelicals together. Believing that the issues of abortion and homosexuality are more paramount than doctrinal differences this has given rise to Mormons and evangelicals building bridges.
This ministry has been instrumental in bringing Richard Lamb and Albert Miehler from the Southern Baptist Convention to speak st BYU. Also Ravi Zacharias to speak a few tomes in recent hears.
It would appear to be commendable to see dialog between Mormons and Evangelicals. Perhaps even some eternal fruit born. But your obersations are right on. This is a cult. And there is no gospel challenge to encourage those in Mormonism to consider the claims of the true Christ of the New Testament. There is no challenge to repent and turn to faith in Christ.
Mormons will tell you they believe in God and Jesus Christ His Son. But one will need to define with Mormons which Christ are they talking about.
I do agree. We do not see the New Testament Apostles building bridges with demonic cults.
| 2014/1/21 10:00|
| Re: Arthur|
Brother read the review of Ravi speaking at Mormon Tabernachle. In many ways encouraging. Particularly emphasizing the word. And reading the word. But wish he had emphasized more of who the word is talking about. Namely Jesus, who is the Word of God.
I found it ironic, almost prophetic, Ravi spoke of an Old Testament king who led millions into evil. He did this standing in a temple of a cult that honored Joseph Smith. A nan whose false doctrine has put millions into hell. Just as Israel was delivered through reading the word. So Mormons will be delivered to Christ if they read the New Testament.
| 2014/1/21 10:24|
| Re: Bible Claims|
2 Corinthians 10:4-6 NKJV
 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds,  casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,  and being ready to punish all disobedience when your obedience is fulfilled.
Paul, filled with love as he certainly was, described some of the parameters of his ministry. I don't think he would have snuggled with the Mormons.
As citizens, we rally together over political and cultural issues that hold the fabric of our common civilization together. We join the Catholics in their abhorence of abortion, the Mormons and others in their defense of marital fidelity, perhaps the Jews in their reverence for family. But we present Christ as the One Messiah, the one hope for eternal life, the Son of God and the foundation for understanding the meaning of life.
We believe because He is reasonable, he made claims and demonstrated His authority to back those claims. We are but witnesses of truth fulfilled before us, and we have no authority to create another narrative as the Mormons have done.
Yet in all of this we can only persuade men, we do not threaten them or coerce them to believe anything. They are completely free to believe whatever they want- but must understand we cannot compromise truth.
Those who seek truth will come to believe Him, because He is the truth.
They will have to deal in some way with the Man who said "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man comes to the Father except through Me."
Bold stuff. May we be credible messengers of that truth!
| 2014/1/21 23:30||Profile|
| Re: |
The idea of dialog with a cult is foolish. Building bridges with demonic cults by sitting around and looking for common ground leads nowhere but to hell.
And yet the apostle Paul did this in Athens. He also drew metaphors from culture – as wicked as it was: for example, the armor of God. (Consider the wicked motives of the Roman Empire: conquest, military might, brutality, massacre!) Today left-leaning Christians avoid the Eph. 6 passage "The armor of God" because it is of the military imagery! (There are "purists" in every camp!!)
“But what does it matter? The important thing is that in every way, whether from false motives or true, Christ is preached. And because of this I rejoice.” Philippians 1:18
May God fill us all with JOY because Christ is preached!
| 2014/1/22 9:30||Profile|
| Re: Diane|
My sister good wise thoughts. Having finally listened to Ravi's second message I am rethinking some things. Will post later.
| 2014/1/22 9:52|
| Re: |
OK I watched the Mormon tabernacle talk again to make sure I did not miss anything. So......
Roadsign said: "And yet the apostle Paul did this in Athens."
But this is not what Ravi did here! Paul did NOT say to those in Athens ' you know what, we may have a theological differences, but lets work to a common cause and get some morality back in this city!'. What Paul did was take their ignorance of an 'unknown god' and use it to explain clearly who the true God is and then clearly state that God commands all men everywhere to repent because judgement is to come.
This is hardly 'finding common ground' with the idolaters in Athens!
I stand by what I wrote before that Ravi's talk would be OK in the context of a 'Christian' or even a general secular audience, but in the context of being invited to speak to Mormons it was sadly lacking and open to be an endorsement of this wicked cult.
One of the main problems as I see it is that he laid a foundation at the beginning by saying "despite our theological difference we can find a common cause to create a moral soul for this culture" (meaning USA). This then sets the mood for everything he says later and despite referring later on in his talk to the need to give the bible and Jesus centrality in our lives, this can be easily assimilated into the Mormon mind set without any disturbance to their thinking.
What an utter understatement to say that there are theological differences (even deep ones), as if they are just a different denomination! Either he does not know what Mormons teach or he is being insincere.
He used the story of Manasseh in the OT as a comparison to the western world today (which is valid). In this he used Hitler and Stalin as examples of how one man can influence and destroy millions by their deception and lead them into heathenism. However not one mention or even a hint about Joseph Smith who has done this through Mormonism. This is the issue, not one thing was said in regard to the error of Mormonism, not even a broad reference to 'trusting in a man' or 'extra biblical teaching'... nothing! But then they wouldn't have invited him and back slapped him would they??
In the end he just left them to continue thinking they were OK.
| 2014/1/22 12:49||Profile|