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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : once justified, always justified?

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Logic
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Joined: 2005/7/17
Posts: 1791


 Re:

Quote:
Ormly wrote:

When has God ever given anyone, a new heart?


[b]Eze 11:19[/b] [color=990000]And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and [b]I will take the stony heart[/b] out of their flesh, [b]and will give them an heart[/b] of flesh:[/color]

[b]Eze 18:31[/b] [color=990000]Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you [b]a new heart[/b] and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? [/color]

[b]Eze 36:26 [color=990000]A new heart also will I give you,[/b] and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh[/color]

Would these verses answer your question?

 2007/5/15 18:15Profile









 Re:

Quote:

Logic wrote:
Quote:
Ormly wrote:

When has God ever given anyone, a new heart?


[b]Eze 11:19[/b] [color=990000]And I will give them one heart, and I will put a new spirit within you; and [b]I will take the stony heart[/b] out of their flesh, [b]and will give them an heart[/b] of flesh:[/color]

[b]Eze 18:31[/b] [color=990000]Cast away from you all your transgressions, whereby ye have transgressed; and make you [b]a new heart[/b] and a new spirit: for why will ye die, O house of Israel? [/color]

[b]Eze 36:26 [color=990000]A new heart also will I give you,[/b] and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh[/color]

Would these verses answer your question?



Not really since God is speaking the nation of Israel whose "stony heart" condition is being discussed with Ezekiel.

It certainly can't speaking of the new birth since, in that, one gets a whole new nature deposited in him.

There is this passage but it doesn't fill the bill either: James 4:8 (KJV) Draw nigh to God, and he will draw nigh to you. Cleanse your hands, ye sinners; and purify your hearts, ye double minded.

 2007/5/15 18:44
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Double Mindedness?

Quote:
There is no doubt that what is within will come out, hence the need for a new heart.



I have long wondered why the whole Baptism in the Holy Spirit was not a once and for all event in the sense that you could be baptized into Christ and that was it. No need for refreshing. No anything. I'm not being pedantic at all here, but trying to get my head around a phenomena I have seen in my own life. Why is it that if we drop the ball and quit seeking God for ongoing infillings (refillings) then I start to slip away from the person of Christ in my behavior? Maybe just my experience here, but I find it is essential to my being conformed to the image of Christ to keep being filled and refilled. The baptism in the Holy Spirit I experienced in 1992 was certainly the life changing event of transformation- but to maintain that has required an ongoing 'refill'. Almost like there is a sort of spiritual entropy going on. The glass keeps going dry.

Maybe I am bordering on suppression theory here, but what could be going on to cause us to keep needing to be filled and refilled? Or for some to reach a place that they have to repent and do their first works? I think of the double minded man that is unstable in all his ways. Maybe this is a different thread, but what is a double minded person? They can't have two carnal minds or two minds of Christ. Is a double minded person one that has ceased to continual in the infillings and somehow they have [i]yielded[/i] their minds to carnal thoughts?


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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/5/15 18:53Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
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 Re: Double Mindedness?

Quote:
Maybe this is a different thread


Perhaps it is. My original intention in starting this thread was really to examine the nature of genuine faith and to query the Calvinist view that once we have had it that moment of justifying faith provides justification past, present and future.


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Ron Bailey

 2007/5/15 19:18Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Ormly wrote:


"""
I have heard that many times in my life only to find out through being born again that it means the word to be THE WORD; Jesus Christ Himself by the Holy Ghost.

The development of my faith in Christ must produce His Faith in me unto an unwavering union.

That is why the rendering of the verse Gal.2.20 KJV is so vitally important here. Paul is stating it is by the very life of the Son of God he lives by. It is by the very life of the Son of God that Faith, HIS Faith comes, and by the hearing of it within him. This is the intimacy Father is after from those who claim His name.
This is beyond having faith in the Son of God and a direct result of it. Jesus enters and makes His abode. One learns to step out into life with HIS Faith; HIS Life.


Other translations don't pick up on most of these seemingly insignificant points to explain them but rather slant them to a particular bent. Reader beware!
I use several in my study and have noticed much elseware in scripture where one should make distinctions by comparing to the KJV as well. By doing so one will learn to read the KJV as easily as the NIV, eating more meat and less potatoes"""




Wow, I hear with ears that Hear, that is His ears. I see with eyes that see, that is His eyes. It truly is Christ in you the Hope of Glory. This truly is the only way any man will be presented perfect before the Father on His Throne.

Colossians 1:27-29 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

And in you.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/5/15 22:19Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
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Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Heb 10:38-39
Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

We learned in past threads that the word for 'draw back' means to furl the sail. The subject is faith. If we draw back in faith. If faith is response to revelation it would seem that the sail might get furled if the response to the revelation has an undesired result. I think we can take ourselves right into Hebrews 11 and ask what we would have done in those individual situations.

In each case there was opportunity to 'draw back' but the reason they are champions of the faith is because they kept the sail 'full on' and at full mast. They had no regard for the consequences of responding rightly to the revelation they knew. I think of Rehab. What if she would have been fearful and disobeyed? She would have died with the rest. What if Moses' mother had feared the kings commandment rather than God? We had never heard of Moses. Those who died in faith had not set their affections on the things of this earth. They were strangers and pilgrims in the earth. They had one eye on the 'better country' all the time and responded to God in light of that eternal perspective.

Heb 11:15-16

And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned.

16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.

My mind cannot help but turn to Demas at this point. He was not supposed to be mindful of the country from which he was brought out; but when he had opportunity he did return (having loved this present world). And maybe that is the issue at hand. Does a person so love the world that they are in danger of being mindful of it and turning back to it (to 'return'). Is this not the reverse of repentance towards God? They repented of their repentance. They changed their mind 'back' again because they were ever mindful of the place where they were brought out.

They were brought out of Egypt- but Egypt was not brought out of them. And given the opportunity- they returned. They furl the sails and pull out the oars. We rowing back to Egypt boys, I don't like whats ahead. Death is ahead- but the well watered land of Egypt is behind. [u]If[/u] they had been mindfull... If they had 'remembered' the place they were brought out from... If they had 'rehearsed' in their minds the memory of the place from which they were brought out they might have sought an opportunity (or a season) to turn back- but now they seek a heavenly city in which God is not ashamed to be called their God.

For those who draw back they are allowed to 'turn back'. Seems like a progression. Remember Lot's wife. She 'looked back'. Is that not what it is to be mindful of the place from which we were brought out. The minds eye turns and the head and body follows. If we [i]look back[/i] we may well [i]draw back[/i] and if we draw back it seems only a matter of time till one [i]turns back[/i].







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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/5/15 23:47Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

After reading thru the thread, in context to the ongoing state of "believing," this question: why does Scripture point to the necessity of continuing in the work of believing? For what purpose does "believing" serve in God's plan for salvation of man?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/5/16 2:46Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Here is a sermon by Carter Conlon on what happens to those who turn aside...

https://www.sermonindex.net/modules/mydownloads/visit.php?lid=1355

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/5/16 7:18Profile
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
My mind cannot help but turn to Demas at this point. He was not supposed to be mindful of the country from which he was brought out; but when he had opportunity he did return (having loved this present world).



I had the thought also that Demas must have known Paul's destiny. Perhaps he was in danger of being put to death also? In any case he looked ahead and apparently did not like the direction things were going. Sail boats have only a limited ability to determine their [i]course[/i]. Paul saw the end of his course and declared the time of his departure was 'at hand'. Paul reached a fork in the road (as it were). Now he is arriving at his final opportunity to exercise faith. What will he do? Like Rehab and like Moses mother. No doubt they both hear the footsteps of fear and could have 'drawn back'- but they did not. Nor did Paul. Demas must not have liked his course and 'turned back'. Perhaps they were to share this destiny together?

Paul had already made it clear that he desired to depart and be with Christ which was far better. He was not mindful of that country from which he came out. What about his companion? What about Demas? Was he also ready to be offered? Was it not also his destiny? He apparently 'accepted' deliverance by forsaking Paul. But Paul, by faith, would not accept the deliverance that he might obtain a better resurrection.

Why faith? Not a hard answer. [i]For it is by faith that it might be by grace, to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed...[/i] (Romans 4)


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Robert Wurtz II

 2007/5/16 7:29Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Brother Robert wrote:

Quote:
Why faith? Not a hard answer. For it is by faith that it might be by grace, to the end the promise might be sure to all the seed... (Romans 4)



What is the product of faith for those who continue to believe?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/5/16 7:36Profile





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