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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : once justified, always justified?

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PosterThread
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Brother Zeke wrote;

Quote:
The word baptism/baptized however which the NT talks about regarding the Spirit is more often than not associated with a coming together of man and God. I am refferring specifically to the scriptures dealing with the Spirit. SO the picture is that God and man come together in union.



Proverbs 2:

6 For the LORD gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding;
7 He stores up sound wisdom for the upright;
He is a shield to those who walk uprightly;
8 He guards the paths of justice,
And preserves the way of His saints.
9 Then you will understand righteousness and justice,
Equity and every good path.
10 When wisdom enters your heart,
And knowledge is pleasant to your soul,
11 Discretion will preserve you;
Understanding will keep you,

Is this an example of the work of the Holy Spirit working in a man's heart?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/5/18 20:48Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Brother Nile wrote:

Quote:
I agree. Look at the story of Balaam, the pagan prophet. The Spirit of the God "came upon him" which is similar, if not the same, as being filled with the Spirit:



Balaam was not a pagan prophet...according to Scripture...

Num 22:18 And Balaam answered and said unto the servants of Balak, If Balak would give me his house full of silver and gold, I cannot go beyond the word of the LORD my God, to do less or more.

Scripture states that Balaam was a prophet of the same God you and I worship...

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/5/18 20:57Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Again, does one remain justified if he does not produce fruit?

Jhn 15:1 ¶ I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman.

2 Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every [branch] that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit.

3 Now ye are clean through the word which I have spoken unto you.

4 Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide in me.

5 I am the vine, ye [are] the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

6 If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast [them] into the fire, and they are burned.


Can a man who does not grow in the love of God and one another, day by day, claim to abide?

Can a man who is regenerate, be satisfied with a moment in time?

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/5/18 21:05Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Num 22:18 And Balaam answered and said unto the servants of Balak, If Balak would give me his house full of silver and gold, I cannot go beyond the word of the LORD my God, to do less or more.

Scripture states that Balaam was a prophet of the same God you and I worship...


No it doesn't. The scripture says that Balaam claimed to be a follower of Jehovah. There is no record of any covenant between God and Balaam. Sadly...“Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” (Matthew 7:22-23 KJVS)This man had experiences of God and claimed to be a servant of God but he was recognised as the author of Israel's sin at Baal Peor and was put to death as the people of Israel were about to enter the Promised land. Num 31:8, 16; Deut 23:4; Josh 13:22; 2Pet 2:15; Jude 1:11; Rev 2:14

God may have used him and did... but he never knew him and his particular use of his prophetic gift was for his own financial gain and consequently 'a worker of iniquity'.


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Ron Bailey

 2007/5/19 0:41Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3707
Ca.

 Re:

Rookie wrote:


""This is not the question at all is it. The real question is do we say yes to the Holy Spirit's commands? That is the only way that Christ manifests Himself to those who believe onto salvation.""

The Holy Spirit is a Dove and He will not invade ones life unless Christ is already there and the life of Christ is working in the believer by His Spirit that is in us. The Holy Spirit will convict the world of sin. Believing that Jesus Christ is the Son of God will bring salvation, then the Holy Spirit can do His work of Teacher in the regenerated believer, with his old mind being renewed to the Mind of Christ by the Holy Spirit Teacher.

First, John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.

This is the from without and the Holy Spirit leaving the believer, "with you", (Old Testament) to the Holy Spirit abiding and dwelling in you forever. (New Testament, new covenant)

Plus first, the Spirit of Christ is in you.
Rom 8:9 But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of His.

John 14:18-19 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you. Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

So we have the Spirit of Christ, if not we are none of His. Then we have the Holy Spirit from the Father who speaks exactly what Jesus tells Him to speak to the believer, "for He will not speak of Himself but only what Jesus Christ gives Him from the Father."

John 14:20-21 At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me, and I in you. He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

How is Jesus Christ manifest to the believer?

John 14:22-24 Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world? Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him. He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.

The Holy Spirit brings forth the Christ that has been birthed in us by The Spirit of Christ, whom we are none of His without The Spirit of Christ.

What does the Spirit of Christ birthed in us do?

John 15:5-8 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing. If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. If ye abide in me, and my words abide in you, ye shall ask what ye will, and it shall be done unto you. Herein is my Father glorified, that ye bear much fruit; so shall ye be my disciples.

All this taught by the Holy Spirit that is put in us at our conversion by the prayer of Christ to the Father.

John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:


John 16:13-15 Howbeit when He, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth: for He shall not speak of Himself; but whatsoever He shall hear, that shall He speak: and He will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for He shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you. All things that the Father hath are Mine: therefore said I, that He shall take of Mine, and shall shew it unto you.

The Holy Spirit teaching us the Christ that is in us, that is His whole purpose for our life in Christ. That is what Glorifies the Father, this Christ life that is now our all.

You cannot get away from it. Colossians 1:27-28 To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

The answer to your question. Yes, if we want to know this Christ that is born again in us by the Incorruptable Seed of the Father.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2007/5/19 3:31Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Brother Phillip wrote:

Quote:
The Holy Spirit is a Dove and He will not invade ones life unless Christ is already there and the life of Christ is working in the believer by His Spirit that is in us.



Scripture teaches that Christ is still a man and still sits at the right hand of the Father. Scripture teaches that God gives us His Holy Spirit as the seal of our coming redemption.

It is the work of the Holy Spirit to communicate to us the commands of our Savior Jesus Christ who sits in heaven and reigns over His kingdom. The work of the Holy Spirit is to communicate day by day the way we are suppose to go. The Holy Spirit is the yoke of Christ.

The fruit of this work by the Holy Spirit is to change the substance of what we hope in. If we abide, then we will have the heart that Christ has softened. If we abide, then we will have the mind that is tuned into His voice. If we abide, then we will learn to love as Christ loves us. The love of Christ is Christ in us, not the Man, but His desires.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/5/19 9:27Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Brother Ron wrote:

Quote:
This man had experiences of God and claimed to be a servant of God but he was recognised as the author of Israel's sin at Baal Peor and was put to death as the people of Israel were about to enter the Promised land. Num 31:8, 16; Deut 23:4; Josh 13:22; 2Pet 2:15; Jude 1:11; Rev 2:14



I respectively disagree. First, the term "pagan" states that Balaam worshiped the god's of men. According to Scripture, Balaam acknowledged God as being his God.

Secondly, the story of Balaam is an example of a man who sold his relationship with God for the treasures of this world. He was tempted by Satan and fell.

You may say that a covenant did not exist between Balaam and God, yet the evidence of relationship is given to us. God warned Balaam just like He warned Cain. Both knew God, both rejected Him and took on the nature of their new father, the devil.

In Christ
Jeff


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Jeff Marshalek

 2007/5/19 9:36Profile
rookie
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Joined: 2003/6/3
Posts: 4803


 Re:

Brother Ron

Proverbs 2:

6 For the LORD gives wisdom;
From His mouth come knowledge and understanding;
7 He stores up sound wisdom for the upright;
He is a shield to those who walk uprightly;
8 He guards the paths of justice,
And preserves the way of His saints.
9 Then you will understand righteousness and justice,
Equity and every good path.
10 When wisdom enters your heart,
And knowledge is pleasant to your soul,
11 Discretion will preserve you;
Understanding will keep you,

Brother Ron you wrote:

Quote:
This is one of only three references to the 'holy' Spirit in the Old Testament. (Psa 51:11; Is 63:10-11) The prevailing attribute of the Spirit in the Old Testament is 'power' not 'holiness'.



In the above Scripture, by what means does God impart His 'wisdom" into the hearts of the OT saint? By what means do the OT saints know His righteousness? By what means does He preserve the way of His OT saints?

In Christ
Jeff


_________________
Jeff Marshalek

 2007/5/19 9:40Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
According to Scripture, Balaam acknowledged God as being his God.


...or he claimed so.



Quote:
Secondly, the story of Balaam is an example of a man who sold his relationship with God for the treasures of this world. He was tempted by Satan and fell.


If you trace the origin of the Midianites and their associations you will see why I would never have trusted Balaam. I think God would have said to Balaam..."I never knew you" even though Balaam claimed otherwise. I man does not need to know God to be used by him viz Caiaphas.


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Ron Bailey

 2007/5/19 10:43Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
In the above Scripture, by what means does God impart His 'wisdom" into the hearts of the OT saint? By what means do the OT saints know His righteousness? By what means does He preserve the way of His OT saints?


the 'heart' speaks of many things including intellect and imagination. God has many ways of imparting his wisdom into the heart.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2007/5/19 10:45Profile





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