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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Why do we sin?

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 Re: Why do we sin?

Krispy

Well you know why we sin from a biblical stand point.

We sin because the desires in our flesh are more pleasing to perform than the desires of the Spirit.

That is why it's such a hard time to walk after the Spirit, the present pleasures outwiegh the eternal benefits of resisting.

Karl

 2005/3/28 17:00









 Re: garbage vs holiness

Krispy

Very good thread!

I wrote in another post regarding the nature of God being revealed to humankind.

God literally placed Himself on this plane that He may experince the garbage thru Jesus Christ. Not that He wanted to live in sin, GOD FORBID. But that He lowered Himself to this level and robed Himself in the likeness of sinful flesh so that He could condemn sin in the flesh.

Before He (I am not sure how to put this) did not know (yeessh) what it was like to be human (oh that doesn't sound right).

I'll let Hebrews2:14-18 explain it:

"Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is , the devil; And deliver them who throught fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. For verily He took on Him the nature of angels; but He took on Him the seed of Abraham. Wherefore in all things it behoved Him to be made like unto His bretheren, THAT HE MIGHT BE A MERCIFUL and FAITHFUL highpriest, to make reconcilation for the sins of the people. For in that He Himself hath suffered being tempted, He is able to succor them that are tempted."

There (whew) I am saved!

Karl

 2005/3/28 17:18
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Angels have free will. Lucifer was an angel, he had a free will.
What about 1/3 of the angels who rebelled against God?

why has not a single one of them repented?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/3/29 1:06Profile









 Re: Why angels can not repent



This is a possible answer.

Satan (Lucifer) was one of the highest angels, perhaps the highest (Eze 28:14). Lucifer knew God in all His glory. For Lucifer and the other angels to rebel despite what they knew about God, it is the utmost of evil. As a result, God does not give Satan and the other fallen angels the opportunity to repent. Further, the Bible gives us no reason to believe they would repent even if God gave them the chance (1Peter 5:8). The Bible tells us that one of the things God judges on is how much knowledge of Him a person possesses (Luke 12:48). The fallen angels, then, are even much more deserving of God’s wrath because of the exceedingly great knowledge they had about God.

How could the angels rebel if they had no free will?

 2005/3/29 5:48









 Re:

Quote:
Before He (I am not sure how to put this) did not know (yeessh) what it was like to be human (oh that doesn't sound right).



I think you're ok with what you said... I understand what you mean. :-)

Krispy

 2005/3/29 8:52









 Re:

Quote:
Odd that you should mention that song today...



I love that song... Randy Travis and Brad Paisley both put that song out on CD the same year (last year). Not sure which i like best, both are great renditions.

"Farther Along" ranks #6 on CMT's (Country Music Television) top 20 "all-time songs of the faith".

I want that song played at my funeral... if we're all still here.

For my friends not in the USA, Randy Travis and Brad Paisley are country music artists... and both are saved.

Krispy

 2005/3/29 8:55
Angyl
Member



Joined: 2005/1/26
Posts: 153


 Re:

Quote:
For Lucifer and the other angels to rebel despite what they knew about God, it is the utmost of evil.


And Adam and Eve who walked and talked with God personally, yet rebelled does not constitute this "utmost evil?" They were immortal, and knew God face to face, yet still defied Him. If there is any "ultimate evil" (and that idea flies in the face of the truth we hold that all sins are equal and worthy of the same punishment in God's eyes), certainly they would have been guilty of it as well.

Quote:
How could the angels rebel if they had no free will?


Again, if they were created to do just that, that's what they would do. How could God's glory have been shown to the Israelites if Pharoh hadn't been such an idiot? It's what God created him to do. Does all of God's hardening of Pharoh's heart infringe on his free will?

Maybe...technically it does, but if God made him for that reason, then it is his choice. Likewise 1/3 of the angels could well have been made to be destroyed.

 2005/3/29 9:01Profile
dann
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 239
Winnipeg, Manitoba Canada

 Re:

Quote:

philologos wrote:
why has not a single one of them repented?



Using 1 Timothy 5:21 as an entry point into this tangent, "I charge you before God and the Lord Jesus Christ and the elect angels that you observe these things without prejudice, doing nothing with partiality." - I reason that those angels whom God elected did not fall - and those whom God did not sovereignly elect did fall.

I would reason that this is why they have not repented - they are not elect.

Dan
/\/
\/\



_________________
Daniel van de Laar

 2005/3/29 11:50Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
How could the angels rebel if they had no free will?


who said they have no free will?


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/3/29 12:01Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
I would reason that this is why they have not repented - they are not elect.

whoops we are back into that loop! If election is on the basis of foreknowledge and foreknowledge is foreknowledge of choice, we are back to 'why were they elect?" Because they 'chose' right, against those who 'chose' wrong. But initial choice is not the same as repentance which is to go against a previous choice.

So did God
create them, already programmed to do evil?
decree that they would inevitably choose to be evil?
allow them to make a choice?

If the latter, why are they given no option for repentance?

The real reason I am asking these unanswerable questions is to make the point that 'angelic' sin is different to 'human' sin, but 'human' sin had an 'angelic' ingredient through the temptation that came from an 'angel'. There is a difference too between Eve's sin and Adam's sin. Paul makes no reference to the ongoing consequences of Eve's sin, but has a whole section following the consequences of Adam's sin.


_________________
Ron Bailey

 2005/3/29 12:14Profile





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