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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The miraculous gifts of the Spirit ceased-???????

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 Re:

But a room full of people singing in tongues is against Paul's instructions. All experience should be tested against scripture but it seems you are content not to do this.

 2013/11/9 16:11
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote by krautfrau: But a room full of people singing in tongues is against Paul's instructions. All experience should be tested against scripture but it seems you are content not to do this.

The issue here is really you don't believe in tongues, it doesn't matter what I say does it.

However they didn't break Paul's instructions.

Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe. 1 Cor 14:22

How can it be a sign to an unbeliever if they don't hear it? It was certainly a sign to me that night I first heard it.

If therefore the whole church be come together into one place, and all speak with tongues, and there come in those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they not say that ye are mad? 1 Cor 14:23

Did they all speak in tongues the whole night and then they closed the meeting? No, it lasted a short while after a song then the preaching started and a unbeliever was fully convinced there was a God and these people knew him.

How can that be against Paul's instruction?


_________________
Colin Murray

 2013/11/9 17:25Profile









 Re:

Paul said it should be two or three at most. And then interpreted. Its true l don't accept anything that steps outside of scripture.

 2013/11/9 17:49
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote by krautfrau: Its true l don't accept anything that steps outside of scripture.

I really don't see how it broke Paul's instruction

What is it then? I will pray with the spirit, and I will pray with the understanding also: I will sing with the spirit, and I will sing with the understanding also 1 Cor 14:15

That exactly what they were doing.

Out of interest and since you mentioned you don't accept anything that steps outside of scripture. How do you handle this one?

Let your women keep silence in the churches: for it is not permitted unto them to speak; but they are commanded to be under obedience as also saith the law 1 Cor 14:32


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Colin Murray

 2013/11/9 18:25Profile
Sidewalk
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Joined: 2011/11/11
Posts: 706
San Diego

 Re: Paul's instructions

Paul most certainly understood the difference between the letter of the law and the spirit of the law. When he tells the Corinthians that only two or three should bring messages in tongues he is appealing to a deeper recognition that out of control meetings will create more problems than those leading the meeting can cope with. If he were giving exact instructions to be followed to the letter he would specified the two or the three. He sums up at one point that all things should be done decently and in order- leaving plenty of room for worshippers to discover and practice their own style.

As to speaking in tongues. Again I am nobody and of no particular reputation- having no authority or special gifts of wisdom. But I have been speaking in tongues in my private devotions for nearly 50 years. As I do this very day, and probably will tomorrow, since I am not looking to express conversational details in a language I do not understand. The language, or words flow from my mouth at the direction of my own spirit (lowercase) as I pray and respond to the Holy Spirit. My spirit prays thus, but my mind does not know what any of it means. I also pray in my known language, and remind God of the things I do not wish that He forget!

So which is more foolish, telling God what He already knows in English or praising and loving Him with words I do not comprehend?

To think of tongues as just an unknown language miraculously given to a Christian to talk to a stranger who knows that language is to miss the point of the general gift of tongues. There have been instances where a prophetic tongue has been given and understood by strangers as at Pentecost, but this is a less common miracle. And It probably would not have been a tool in God's hand if this person had not given himself to speaking in tongues at an earlier point in life.

Krautfrau, perhaps your heart is steadfastly set against participating in the gift of tongues. If so, you are in the company of many wonderful Christians who hold that view, even as I did so many years ago. But if you have an ear to hear on this, simply ask God for a personal revelation of whatever He might have for you. Then go about your normal routines, and as your heart lies open to Him, He will fill it with good things. Never receive some word that without speaking in tongues you are not in the will of God!

And maybe some day you will stumble into a room where the saints of God are singing sweetly in their heavenly languages and you will experience what Colin is talking about- with unexplainable tears of joy streaming down your cheeks!

May God's richest blessings come to satisfy all the empty places in your heart!


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Tom Cameron

 2013/11/9 18:48Profile
murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Sidewalk very well explained with loving and kind words - Oh if I could express myself like you. I always seem to be abrupt and to the point.


_________________
Colin Murray

 2013/11/9 19:15Profile









 Re:

Amen, Murrcolr. Nice post, Sidewalk.

 2013/11/9 22:05
Sidewalk
Member



Joined: 2011/11/11
Posts: 706
San Diego

 Re:

You guys are very kind, I appreciate it!

Speaking in tongues is such a strange notion to a rational human mind. Why would anyone do that? A very normal, rational question. It is also quite logical for people to call it into question as demonic since it seems to add nothing to systematic theology and seems somewhat tangental to the common doctrines of salvation.

Yet there it is in the New Testament widely known and practiced, with detailed instructions and considerable encouragement for its use by Paul.

I can only speak from my own experience with it, that somehow this mystical means of connection with the Holy Spirit has been a great comfort, a means by which prayer has been enriched, a constant open door to the joy of knowing His Spirit is within me. Because I cannot imagine trying to live out my faith without this gift, it has always been my eager desire for others to have it too. I do regret that many Christians have no desire to seek God for the gift.

In my opinion, the Scripture clearly invites all who believe in Jesus as Lord to enjoy the gift of tongues. I also believe that most of those who reject it have been taught amiss as to what it is and how it works.

Speaking in tongues has certainly blessed me!


_________________
Tom Cameron

 2013/11/9 22:47Profile









 Re:

Colin

It is not scriptural for more than two or three to speak in tongues during a service (1Cor 14:27) and then it must be one at a time with an interpretation following. Singing cannot be any different.

As for women speaking, many theologians say that this is referring to chattering as Paul also instructs women when they prophecy to wear head coverings so he is not banning speaking as you imply.

 2013/11/10 3:55









 Re:

Quote:
Yet there it is in the New Testament widely known and practiced, with detailed instructions and considerable encouragement for its use by Paul.



Brother, Paul refutes you in 1 Cor 14:19-21.

I know what it is by my attendance at charismatic churches and knowing many dear charismatic believers. I did at one time seek it for myself but as with all things, I conducted a study myself in scripture while waiting for the Lord to give me light and I found that it was a sign gift for the times and ceased as scripture and history shows but the other gifts did not cease and I believe in a secondary baptism of the Spirit.

Quote:
May God's richest blessings come to satisfy all the empty places in your heart!



Thanks but I dont have any empty places in my heart. The Lord is bringing me back at the moment to the sinless state I held previously which was the result of the baptism of the Spirit and the walls of the city are being rebuilt after my time in exile. While I was walking in that state I saw many wonderful things like the time I was in a prayer meeting and we were talking about sanctification. I hardly had opened my mouth to speak when a woman suddenly began pouring out her sins in deep distress. The charismatic minister present who was unable to discern the spirits quenched the Spirit very quickly by telling her that she need not to worry about her sins as they had been covered by the Blood. For all of his tongue speaking. he could not help that woman to repent and be truly baptised in the Spirit and not the false one he taught.

This is what I want - to be able to get out there and give real help for people to be rid of their sins instead of sitting babbling in a corner enjoying myself.

 2013/11/10 4:01





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