| Re: |
brothagary wrote : ///proud papa if you have something to say please do ///
I will have to ponder on this one a bit, May God open our eyes,and my eyes on this subject.
| 2013/11/1 21:54||Profile|
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RE: ///I believe we are all born in sin as you but many good Christians don't believe that ,,but we all become sinners at a certain ,age that really doesn't affect the gospel presentation ,as long as you make it clear that we are all sinners ,,,,,this gyes says what you say in your last post that we can only come to god through the son///
Charles Finney, Paris Reidhead would both have strongly disagreed that 'men are born sinners' is what Scriptures taught, but they all would agree that all Men have Sinned.
| 2013/11/1 21:58||Profile|
| 2013/11/1 22:14||Profile|
| Re: |
I have just one point and some questions.
First point is that Andrew Strom promotes this person's ministry on his website and calls Torben "my friend", so maybe Andrew can give us some more information on this.
I have questions such as,
Why is there no clear gospel message on the website of this guy's ministry? In fact no gospel message at all.
Why is the majority of prayer offered for small ailments (aches and pains, etc) and hardly any real maladies such as lame, blind, deaf etc?
Why in most of the video clips all you see is the 'healing' and no gospel and call for repentance? There are a couple of instances showing this, but not much.
I would not call most of what is shown 'miracles', even though they may be healings, which I am not belittling. Miracles would normally be something that could not happen any other way, but by a supernatural act of God.
| 2013/11/2 6:53||Profile|
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that's interesting dave ,,,strom is look up to in sermon index as great deserner ,and not himself ,a(carsamaniac)
iv not look at much on his site ,,but did watch a gospel presentation on video on the front page ,,it was like a cartoon with stills
tho I do apreiate what he is doing ,as obviously strom does as well ,,,whay not go to a hospitial and walk through the wards and pray
iv noticed dave that on many of the clips ,they have either cut out the gospel message ,,,or said that now we tell them about Jesus and stop the clip ,,,I don't want to to negative about that because iv seen the gospel presentation in some ,and I would not want to make assumptions based on what I don't see but rather what I have seen
I don't know what to call it maybe not miracles ,,maybe they are ,,,iv had this happen before when I prayed and layed hands on my wife a wile ago ,,and yesterday I did and ,the pain left here arm and then neck,,and she giggled a fair bit and did not no why
one of the things that I think is not right ,,is that he did not warn people that if they don't repent some thing worse might come upon them ,,,Jesus said that do a laim man
and personally I think that at the very least if one does not repent ,,the sickness and pain will come back
| 2013/11/2 18:56||Profile|
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Some reports I read tell of an evangelistic team going into a village where first there may be miracles of healing or even the dead being raised and then a response to the gospel. Gospel for Asia carries such reports on a regular basis.
Moslems are coming to Christ through dreans and visions. Meaning they will see Jesus first in a dream or vision then pick up a New Testament or hear the gospel and then become converted.
So it seems that miracles can precede a gospel proclamation which can lead a person th Christ.
Just my thoughts.
| 2013/11/2 19:44|
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11
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What you see in this video is not what Jesus nor the Apostles did, the Gospel was not proclaimed and it is more of a game and something done without seriousness of the truth of people's sin and being at enmity with God: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo--S5Pa494#t=329
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
| 2013/11/2 20:04||Profile|
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greg when I go through the book of the acts ,,there is an example in chapter 28 where paul was on malta 3 days and healed and there was no mention of the gospel preach when he healed or even in the three days he was there no mention of peoples sins in that example
so i cant see how from a that short example you post it proves that there were not acting like the apostils ,,,,because it seems evident that this coribin preached on sin and the new birth and repentence ,,in other clips ,as the apostils did in others examples
brothers with all respect on a whole it doesn't seem to go against scripture if look at in its widest context
and take in to account all the different variables' and examples set in scripture ,,,,,,also scince a lot of this seems to be training amateurs and those who have never never heald or preached the gospel before ,it would be expected to not see a full presentation of the gospel or a very limited one according to the faith and ability of those evenglising
look at you and me ,,what did we say the first time we witnessed jesus to others ,,it wasn't the full gospel
look at Duncan camble ,,,,he said in the hospital he just mentioned the name Jesus and people were converted
we can get legalistic and expect every example of evangelising to be up to the standard of us or the apostils ,,,,we need to allow for what is mentioned here brother greg
paul said he who prophecy let him do so with which the abilities to which god supplies
it sounds like even corbin is only been saved around 17 years and the people he is training much less in many cases
blessings to you brother
| 2013/11/2 21:13||Profile|
| Re: CYNICISM IS NOT DISCERNMENT|
SAD REACTION to WALMART HEALINGS!
by Andrew Strom
Last week we published a video of an old friend of mine, Torben
Sondergaard, as he prayed for the sick on the streets and in the
supermarkets of America. The deaf were healed and the lame
walked – right on camera. But some people who saw the video
reacted quite badly. Maybe it was the fact that the video started
with “legs growing out” instead of the more impressive healings –
I don’t know. But it seems there is a lot of cynicism out there.
I have actually known Torben personally for 5 or 6 years. I have
stayed in his home and spent time with his family. I know his
writings and his preaching. To me, he is one of the few preachers
in Denmark who fully represents the gospel as it should be
preached. He stands for repentance, holiness and reformation
in a way that made us “click” together like old friends right away.
So it really upsets me to hear all the accusations people are
making – who don’t know the first thing about him.
CYNICISM IS NOT DISCERNMENT
Since the Todd Bentley debacle and other waves of “Charis-
mania” in recent times, it is very easy to become cynical about
healings and miracles, etc. I can understand that. But I have
always been very clear that true healings, prophecies, dreams,
visions and miracles should be absolutely EXPECTED as a
totally normal part of everyday Christian life. In fact, without them
it is very doubtful that we have true “Bible” Christianity at all. So
it deeply grieves me to see people getting so cynical that they
“nitpick” every instance of the supernatural or the gifts of the
Holy Spirit to death. It has got to the point where I can hardly
post any of these things on my website without rafts of cynical
comments that try to pick apart every aspect of them.
My friends, that is not discernment. It is the spirit of “writing off
everything.” It is unwarranted accusation and nit-picking. It is the
“other ditch” on the far side of the road. Some fall into the ditch
of “hyper-grace” and ‘hyper-charismania’. Others fall into the
opposite ditch of Legalism and “cynicism of anything supernatural”.
Both of these ditches are equally dangerous. It is just as deadly
to become the type that “accuses first” and asks questions later.
A very dangerous cynicism takes hold at that point. Just like the
Pharisees. I think a lot of people need to repent.
We cannot just be focused on what is “wrong”. At some point
we have to be about establishing what is ‘right’. We have to go
forward into the “True” thing. Not just be exposing the False.
And the time has come to start in that direction.
I believe Torben has been shown a number of things that are
truly “revolutionary” – but also very simple – about getting back
to New Testament Christianity. Literally “what to do” to get
back there. That is why he and I agree on so many things. But
Torben is actually seeing it work IN PRACTICE. It is actually
happening. New Testament Christianity – right before your eyes.
So I am going to be featuring a lot more of Torben’s stuff on here.
Let me give you an example. Torben believes in taking new
Christians out on the street very quickly to pray for the sick and
share the gospel. He believes this is a vital part of true “disciple-
ship”. Just like Jesus did with his own disciples. I have just posted
a brief video (above) where Torben discusses the amazing things that
happen when this is done. Please take a look. You will be glad you did.
God bless you all. – Andrew Strom.
edit add : cynicism is not discernment, but when brothers such as Greg have an uneasy feeling about something we need to becareful as to ride it off as only being cynicism.
I do not have enough discernment to make a judgement but I feel that I will just lean on the side of non judgement scepticism.
| 2013/11/2 22:06||Profile|
| Re: CYNICISM IS NOT DISCERNMENT|
Thank you for that last post. I too want to thank Torben for his ministry,and the others with him that are going forth and living the gospel, as written in the Book of Acts. I have been taking his online classes now for about 9 weeks. Over 2 years ago, the Lord was speaking to my husband and I about getting out into the harvest field. We saw very few Christians doing that. So we just started going out, and saw some good fruit. What Torben is doing is encouraging others to do what Jesus and the disciples did. Many seem hung up on "wasting" the healing prayer on unrepentant sinners. Not at all, they are always told who did the healing,(Jesus) and even if they are not ready to repent, it is a seed planted.
Consider John 4:47-51. Jesus healed a man's son out of compassion for him. In verse 48, Jesus said "Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe." I don't believe Jesus was condeming the man, he knew his human weakness, and Jesus wanted him to believe, so that is why he did what he did. People are the same today, many need to know the love and power of God, they will not just believe words in a book, it must be demonstrated for them.
I am wondering about some of the people that oppose Torben or other evangelists out there. Are the critics out saving souls? When was the last time they brought someone to Christ, baptised someone, delivered someone from demons, healed?
Just something to think about.
| 2013/11/3 0:11||Profile|