There is a very subtle and very slippery slope when it comes to 'Progressive' Christianity. One of the things I am keenly aware of is as the pdf is titled 'Hath God said..' because false pastors will take the Word and change a word or 2 just enough to make it sound as if it is the same but it is not. I am very often aware of this and often bring it up to people as an offering of discernment of the work of the adversary these days. I want to be able to confront a few of these people/pastors as well.

I like the analog of nail jello to the wall because I do find that kind of belief system with them. I notice many of the things that the average person doesn't notice. That includes how a progressive congregation reacts to certain buzz terms - often more than Conservative Christians react to the truth.

Through it all it makes me very aware of the scripture about God finding faith in the Earth in the end times because the subtly of the Devil is a might one. Appealing to the eyes, to the hears, and to the touch yet it leads to death.

John

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John

Brother John
Andrew Kelly is not posting here at the moment, but I thought you should see what he writes of "progressive christianity", or "emergent theology" as he calls it:

"An Ancient Danger & A Modern Reality

Occult thinking is now finding its fullest outworking in an emergent theology amongst God’ very elect. At the heart of this emergent theology lies a rational and undeniable reality which is so seductive that it makes of its adherents a tangible realisation of god like understanding and ambitions which resists rebuke because at the heart of it lies the natural hearts and minds of men and women and has little if anything to do with demonic activity as was historically understood even thirty years ago. In short men and women are themselves becoming demonic in their inclinations, thereby making demonic activity less visible and more subtle than at any time in history."


A day of sorcerers A R M Kelly
https://blog.ichabod.eu/sorcerers/

David

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david

Andrew Kelly has 'hit the nail on the head'!

John, your opening line was 'progressive or conservative Christianity'. The progressive has been addressed here and I think we all understand what this means in it's basic sense, but what you call conservative has not been discussed or described.

I'm not sure I know what you mean by conservative. The term can mean a lot of different things to different people and probably different to you in the USA to me the UK. As I said in a previous post, the simple definition of the word itself would lead us to agree that it would be a good position to be conservative if it means not changing from that which has been received and accepted as truth. (By that I mean the foundational truths of our faith). What do you mean by the term conservative?

In your blog you make clear that you understand progressive Christianity is an error and I understand your motive in wanting to engage with these folk. However you also state that both progressive and conservative Christianity have there good and bad points. That seems to be a bit odd, as if they are not any different. So hence my question, what is it that you call 'conservative' and what is the error in it?

Progressive Christianity is clearly a satanic deception. Are you saying the same of what you call 'conservative Christianity'? If so you need to define it for me.

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Dave

Conservative would be the same as Fundamental. The flaw with Conservatives is abuse of literalism and how literal to allow something to be when it comes to family. Some examples would be clothing. Does the Bible teach a strict code or it is merely cultural? Is it ok for a woman to work or should she be at home and be a home maker and even a mom? Does a woman have any rights at all or is she at the mercy of men? ERA was a backlash to this.

Plus the fact that some Fundamentalist preacher abused their congregations with hard preaching to the extent the extent that legalism entered the scene. Clothing, music, drink, family roles and so forth. What if a girl wanted to learn how to be a mechanic would a Fundamentalist think that isn't a woman's role?

My mom worked her tail off through college to be a nurse while my dad did his own business but was as lazy as a sloth. Not long after she graduated she divorced my dad. He was lazy and might have had a few affairs on her. After the divorce dad condemned my brother and I for going with a 'whore' and a 'divorcee'. An old time Fundamentalist (preacher) would condemn her for her actions according to what he reads from the bible because it only shows a man can divorce his wife and not the other way around. I can tell you that my brother and I probably would have ended up disfunctional had mom not divorced day.

Some of my thoughts on why Fundamentalism has flaws and can lead to abuse in its extremist of views.

Opinions?
John

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John

John, it would also come down to what we mean by 'fundamental', because it can also mean different things to different folk. To some it means adhering to fundamental, essential truths of Scripture upon which one's salvation can hing. To others it may mean legalism, etc. If by fundamentalist and conservative you mean adhering to essential Christian truths I would consider myself in that camp, and so would many brothers and sisters on this forum.

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Oracio

Another thing that came to mind is that some pastors who claim to be conservative are actually hiding under that guise while actually being progressive/emergent in some of their practices and teachings. One such pastor who comes to mind is Mark Driscoll. For example, he does not shy away from being too sexually explicit and he practices and endorses drinking alcohol in public.

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Oracio

Nothing can be termed progressive until we are progressing towards God and drawing near to him. If we are progressing towards the world and embracing it then we are actually not progressing but degrading.

A conservative view should mean SELF denial, not a denial enforced on others, then it becomes legalistic. There are people who are given the responsibility to Sheppard others and they are exceptions but not all are called to be shepherds.

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Sreeram

Hi John,

Thanks for your explanation. I see why I was confused about what you said. You see I would not associate the things you describe as being 'conservative'. It would just not be in my thinking. To me 'conservative Christian just means someone who believes the fundamental truths of scripture (now I've used that other word). That's why labels don't really work, we just have to address the actual teachings and practices to be clear.

I think your perception is very affected by your history, which I understand. Some of those things you list as 'conservative' I would have opinions on, but they are not things that I would consider make someone 'conservative' or 'fundamental'.

To a 'progressive' you would be considered a 'conservative'.
You would probably take that as an insult though!:)

I know some that would be considered 'fundamentalist' to whom the word 'charismatic' means the extreme crazy money prosperity preachers. That is the image in their mind. They cannot conceive that it could include normal sound bible believing Christians who also believe in the gifts of the Spirit, even though they fellowship with and accept such folk they don't consider them'charismatic'. As someone here used to say 'words have history, not just meaning'!

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Dave

John

There is a place where:

The Saints feed on the Bread of Life without fear.

Where a fountain is open to the thirsty.

Where no wolf or hireling can enter or thief break in, but the Good Shepherd guides His own to fresh pastures.

Where all love one another without preference.

Where all lean on His bosom and commune with their Beloved.


Where is this place? It is called His church. It is a pearl of great price, for which a man will sell all that he has, of rather, discard all he has, considered as dung. It is to be sought by the hungry soul, but in seeking IT, it will not be found. For what can a man give in exchange for his soul?

There are no descriptive adjectives whereby it may be described, such as conservative, evangelical, progressive, or even christian. It is His church, His body, His bride.

It exists in heaven and here on the earth. But in the wisdom of God, only little children find it.


David

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david

I have always believed the "Pearl of Great Price" is eternal life and Jesus Christ is eternal life, Who paid THE great price for us.

Both parables (pearl of great price and treasure in the field) involve a man who sold all he had to possess the kingdom. The treasure and the pearl represent the salvation that Jesus Christ offers (Jesus Christ is Salvation).

Of course, we cannot pay for our salvation but once we find Christ we are willing to give up everything to possess it.

Mat 16:24 Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
Mat 16:25 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.
Mat 16:26 For what is a man profited, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?