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dougr777
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Joined: 2009/1/16
Posts: 319


 Should She Preach? - Biblical Evangelism for Women.

A new book is being written by a brother who is a street evangelist and brother in Christ, I have not read it since it is not published yet. I plan to read it when it's published so I fully understand the position the author speaks about.

There is a video he preached that was published online in August of 2013. I won't post the link here because of the forum rules, you can search for it on the internet.

The book is about "should women preach in the open air" I believe and his study of the word on this position.

There is a great move in the body of Christ to call women "pastor" and give them a title and a role in the body of Christ.

I talked with my pastor about this and he is of the belief that a women that is in a "governmental" (Authority) position in the church over men is not Biblical.

We left a church many years back because the senior pastor's wife was going to "co-pastor" with Him at the local body.

In love brothers and sisters what is the truth on this topic? Is it 'essential' doctrinally for a local church or is this another subtle deception of the enemy? Is a women supposed to be 100% of the time 'silent' or able to freely speak? even in the open air?

I'm looking for help understanding both sides of this so I can be a Berean on this topic personally. Thanks.

Doug


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Doug R

 2013/9/17 23:21Profile
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 Re: Should She Preach? - Biblical Evangelism for Women.

Brother,

This is an important topic. In the underground Church in China there are more women then men in active ministry and in some cases shepherds of God's flock. Most are evangelists and apostles that build up the body of Christ and win souls to the Lord. Most of the head leadership from what I can tell is men so women do submit to men.

I see nothing wrong with sisters serving the Lord in teaching and preaching (prophesying) especially to the lost but as towards authority the men are given the greater authority in family and in the Church. Those women should always defer to men's authority where she can. This is biblical and right.

But God is raising up women in places where men have not obeyed God and therefore that is another exception to the rule for myself personally. It is simply healthy in a local assembly to allow times for sisters to prophesy but there should be more of a meek, quiet submission for sisters in general.

The Lord will bring balance to this as saints in the West are open to God's way and not a religious form that is devoid of God's power.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2013/9/17 23:29Profile









 Re: Should She Preach? - Biblical Evangelism for Women.

Everyone in the Body has a role, no one has a title except the King of Kings. We are all brethren. Preaching to the lost is for every New Man in Christ, neither male nor female. If men won't preach, what's a girl to do if her Lord calls upon her? Many here on SI can name many women preachers held in high esteem by the Lord as He confirmed His word that they faithfully and boldly preached.

When did preaching the Gospel become "exercising authority over men"?

 2013/9/18 0:17









 Re: Should She Preach? - Biblical Evangelism for Women.

The question was "should she preach?" or "should women preach in the open air?" Thats a bit vague really but if that means the gospel to anyone then the answer is yes why not. If that means being called pastor and taking authority over men in the church then the answer is no. If that means being called an apostle then the answer is no. If that means being under a woman from the male perspective then the answer is no. Would I submit to a woman in authority in the church? No never on any grounds at any time or in any place I will not in the name of Christ the Lord.

As for the rubbish about "whats a girl to do" go and get some intelligence. Wake up and smell the coffee. The writing is on the wall. If you think that the things men have done are bad wait until you have women in full leadership with no possibility to resist them. Then you will know what true wickedness is. Think I am joking? I am not. If you believe that men have been cruel of themselves wait until they are led by a woman. You will comprehend true Satanic cruelly in that hour. When the end of this age comes with all of its terror it will not be an age without women in authority over men. It will be the only age in history with women in authority over men. Get real and stop playing with words. Women do not and are not stepping into the places where men have failed to walk. It's a lie. They have rebelled, murdered our children from their womb by the millions, and they have rejected their God given role in life. The women who have today sweetly slipped into leadership authority have done so on the back of murder and rebellion.

So what is there to do now then? The answer is nothing! It is already too late. I have washed my hands of all rebellion of men and women regardless. I will have nothing to do with it whatsoever. That is the end of it for me. When the hour comes I will curse it unto death and then go the way appointed to me.

Just for anyone who wants to be contentious with me I am speaking about women in positions of governmental authority in the churches. I am not speaking about women in authority in secular government or educational establishments. I am speaking about my attitude in the churches including China or any other place. If we truly believe that the mess we are in now is a reflection of God's will we have entered into madness.





 2013/9/18 3:13
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

A question that is never asked: Should women be allowed to sing? Not even the most legalistic authoritarian Presbyterian or Baptist will say no. Which in my opinion shows the log in their own theological eye. People will object to a woman preaching in Sunday school, in a classroom, and on a street corner. But they will not object to her bringing the word in song, which is arguably one of the greatest methods of preaching possible.

If you are going to argue women should be silent then ban them from singing in your choirs too. Otherwise you sound silly. You'll make an exception for that based on some contrived "governmental" theological mumbo jumbo that somebody contrived hundreds of years ago and others without an iota of revelation have blindly parroted. All the mean while you'll ban a woman from preaching open air while the world goes to hell in silence. Our Lord once talked about how the Sabbath was created for man, and not man for the Sabbath. How much more then has a woman been created for man!

Let the women preach!


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Jimmy H

 2013/9/18 5:35Profile
enid
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Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2680
Nottingham, England

 Re:


Matthew 7:22, "Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord,
have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?"

In verse 23 we read that the Lord will tell them to depart,
for they are practicing lawlessness.

So, rather than appeal to emotion, experience, or opinion, let's look at what the scriptures say.

1 Timothy 2:11,"Let a woman learn in silence with all submission.

Verse 12, "And I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man, but to be in silence."

This next scripture is for everyone.

1 Samuel 15:22,"...behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed than the fat of rams.

Verse 23, For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry..."

Was that only for King Saul?

How many, who are doing what seems godly, are on their way to hell, because they are pleasing themselves rather than God?

 2013/9/18 5:58Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

You can quote those verses just fine. But when you look at all the data of Scripture you'll find that there were female apostles, prophets, and pastors. So if we are to begin to have understanding of what Paul said in regard to women being silent, we need to understand it in the greater context of Paul and the apostles approving of women who were not always silent. Indeed, they were vocal leaders and held up as examples.

If an ox falls into a pit on the Sabbath, what would you do?


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Jimmy H

 2013/9/18 6:16Profile









 Re:

Quote:
1 Samuel 15:22,"…behold, to obey is better than sacrifice, and to heed than the fat of rams.

Verse 23, For rebellion is as the sin of witchcraft and stubbornness is as iniquity and idolatry…" Enid



I was just listening to a rabbi speaking on this very verse when you posted. He shared concerning Saul and the context of Samuel's words to Saul but drew one very important understanding about rebellion. In this instance rebellion of Saul was disobedience to a direct commandment. Albeit it is one of the most difficult commandments ever issued in the Scriptures it was nevertheless a commandment. Saul's rebellion that day in preserving the life of a king ensured that this line of worldly rebellion and continuous attacks on Israel would not be brought to an end until after the return of Judah from Babylon, at the time of the re-building of the temple. Imagine that. One disobedient man and nearly one thousand years of consequences!

Today we have weak minded men claiming that sisters can and ought to teach in the churches. This is so in defiance of the Scripture that to assert anything other is itself rebellion. The consequences of this will be for a thousand years as well. The verse you quote regarding the rejection of the Lord of those who have rebelled is a rejection from the millennial kingdom itself. We may not be able to believe this, but it has been said regardless. The warnings were all to much of a stumbling block themselves in the past and those who so warned and themselves caused stumbling had better be ready for rejection as well unless they repent. Nevertheless you cannot change the Scriptures. There were however many sound and reasonable warnings given over the past 400 years all on record and all to be comprehended if we have a mind to it.

Sadly the bitterness of experience of many women has been itself the root of rebellion. Whist the weak mindedness of many men in failing to both comprehend the bitterness as well the rebellion resulting from it has laid an authoritative basis for its continuance, the underlying commandment is unchanged. Now it is open, brazen and wicked. It is Satan as an angel of light and its end will be beyond anything we can comprehend. In 30 years in the church not one sister has ever attempted to take authority over me. In the same period I have seen destruction and devastation in every part of the UK brought about by weak minded men allowing sisters who are themselves bitter, with experience or political thinking to exercise authority as Mrs Pastor. Now it is becoming Mrs Elder. Qualifications devised in the corrupt imagination of men and women serving Satan more than they can imagine is sheer foolishness at best and open rebellion in many instances.

If you think that the gift of prophecy is always innocently ascribed or else exercised then you also fail to comprehend that the gift is within the grasp of the recipient. It is not a jaw clenching gift to speak without participation as though the body itself has become some mechanical devise. It is a gift which when exercised in a root of bitterness through pride and rebellion is more fully witchcraft than the flesh itself is capable off. As one pastor said to me 30 years ago when I asked why he was allowing a sister to exercise authority over all the male youth of the church, "it is because she is submitting to me and therefore she is not in rebellion". So be it I said. Now that same church is given over to complete foolishness and is virtually apostate. The sister has no husband. Their first born was taken and the husband is apostate. Wise up brethren.

 2013/9/18 6:33
enid
Member



Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2680
Nottingham, England

 Re:

Its obvious this is going to be one of those 'hot' topics that people gravitate toward, because of the controversy it involves.

The fact that it involves controversy should speak for itself.

A woman should not preach, according to the scriptures.

When opinion, emotions and experience try to supersede the word of God, well, it speaks for itself.

Heaven and earth shall pass away, Jesus tells us. But these petty, useless arguments ensue, because people suppose they know better than God.

Enough.

EDIT: By the way, In Matthew 28, when Jesus gave the 11 the so called Great Commission, how many women were present?

 2013/9/18 7:29Profile
KingJimmy
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Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Accusing people of rebellion here isn't much different than when the Pharisees saw Jesus and his disciples walking through a grain field and eating from the crop. Such was indeed, a violation of the sabbath command at a technical level. But then the Lord reminded the Pharisees of how the priest gave David bread from the temple, even though it wasn't lawful for him to do so. Jesus argued that they didn't violate the Sabbath because a higher principle was being invoked than that of the Sabbath commandment.

Let's not speak nonsense breathren. Let's rightly divide the entire word of God.

Romans 16:7 Greet Andronicus and Junias, my kinsmen and my fellow prisoners, who are outstanding among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

"Junias" is a female name in the Greek. She is regarded as "oustanding among the apostles." That is, she is an oustanding apostle.

Acts 21:9 Now this man had four virgin daughters who were prophetesses.

Obviously, these women were speaking. They were not silent.

2 John 1:1 The elder to the chosen lady and her children, whom I love in truth; and not only I, but also all who know the truth,

John's 2nd epistle was written to a woman, that whoever exactly she was, it is apparent that he wrote to her as one who was a leader within the church, and had her own house church (the only type they had back then). She was discipling a group of people and providing regular instruction to a body of believers. She was to "watch" over them as her children, and to be careful about teaching the type of teaching that was allowed into their circle.

So, before we get carried away with nonsensical labels and prejoratives and dogmas, let's look at the entire word of God and try to make sense of everything. Whatever Paul said about women being silent and not having authority over men must be understood in the entire context of Scripture. We cannot ignore these Scriptures.


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Jimmy H

 2013/9/18 7:38Profile





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