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Nasher
Member



Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 Born of Water

There was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews: The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born?

Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.
John 3:1-7 (KJV)


What is the "born of water" Jesus is talking about?

I have always thought it meant our natural birth because in the preceeding verse Nicodemus is talking about "his mother's womb" and in the next verse it seems to equate "born of water" with "born of the flesh"; however some people say that the born in water is describing water baptism / repentance.

What thinketh ye?


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Mark Nash

 2005/3/21 3:34Profile
DaBookman
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Joined: 2005/2/25
Posts: 14


 Re: Born of Water

I personaly think we must be born of the living water (word of God) breathed on by the Holy Spirit. "born of water and the spirit" "For man can not live on bead alone but on every WORD that proceeds from the lips of God." Jesus is the bread that came down from heaven he has poured out his blood that you and I may be brought near to the Kingdom of God. The Kingdom of God is near,repent for the remission of sins and you will recieve the Holy Ghost.But we need more than just the forgiveness of sins, we need to renew our minds. When we were born again we could see the Kingdom of God ....but we have to enter in! We need a saviour ..yes but we also need a Lord to renew our mind by the daily washing of the water of the word. As I seek Gods face in the word breathed on by the Holy Spirit I am convicted of sin in my life.Which drives me to the cross and brings about Godly sorrow and true deeper repentance. In other words as I behold Jesus as in a glass I am transformed into the same image. From Image to image and glory to glory.Hallelieua! Thanks be to God and his Lamb that was slain!!!!!! That is how I understand it. What do you think?


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Frank White

 2005/3/21 8:25Profile
PreachParsly
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Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

I think that "born of water" means to be born naturally. Probably coming from the same saying as "her water broke'? I'm just guessing... Born of water, i think, is the natural birth. "born of the spirit" is to have your spirit born again ie born again, converted... Thats my opinion.


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Josh Parsley

 2005/3/21 11:20Profile
philologos
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Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
I think that "born of water" means to be born naturally. Probably coming from the same saying as "her water broke'? I'm just guessing... Born of water, i think, is the natural birth. "born of the spirit" is to have your spirit born again ie born again, converted... Thats my opinion.

It was my opinion too for a long time and the opinion of some I have the greatest respect for, but recently I have returned to these verses and see the symbolism much more in the light of the Jewish perceptions and use of water baptism.

The Jews regarded proselytes as 'new born' through their baptism. The concept that Jews would need to be reborn was a stunning blow to Nicodemus. We can see the way the Jews struggled with the significance of John's Baptism. I think this is probably a continuation of John Baptist's theme that I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: (Mat 3:11 KJV)This contrast becomes a combination in the words of Jesus; a watery baptism and a fiery birth was the way Israel was constituted as a nation. Both are necessary...Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. (Act 2:38 KJV)


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Ron Bailey

 2005/3/21 14:59Profile
taco
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Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 211


 Re: Born of Water

According to Bullinger it is an example of the figure of speech -hendiadys

thus it should read "spiritual water"

Just as the Lord's glorious appearing is rendered in so many translations as "the appearing of the glory of the great God and saviour" but in the KJV the hendiadys is recognised and it is renderd "glorious appearing"

hendiadys basicaly means that one of the nouns is acting as an adjective, spirit in this case.

I can't really verify if this is the case in John 3 but I share it for its worth,

Taco

 2005/3/21 17:29Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2736
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Born of Water

Quote:
What is the "born of water" Jesus is talking about?



Some believe that the water Jesus is speaking about here is merely symbolic-as it was in the Old Testament-of purification. Nicodemus would have understood the reference to OT water of purification and no doubt he would have remembered Ezekiel 36:25 and the promise of the new covenant; "Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you." Then two verses later is the promise "I will put my Spirit within you." Those verses bring the ideas of water and spirit together, the passage speaks of regeneration by water and the Spirit.

Paul seems to echo this in Titus 3:5 when he says,
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration[water], and renewing of the Holy Ghost[Spirit]."

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2005/3/21 20:13Profile
Nasher
Member



Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 Re:

How do ye explain:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh?


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Mark Nash

 2005/3/22 2:23Profile
taco
Member



Joined: 2004/4/27
Posts: 211


 Re:

Quote:

Nasher wrote:
How do ye explain:

That which is born of the flesh is flesh?



And that of the Spirit is spirit.

You must be born again(from above) you have already had a natural birth -your flesh

now you must have a birth of spiritual water.

 2005/3/22 3:11Profile
philologos
Member



Joined: 2003/7/18
Posts: 6566
Reading, UK

 Re:

Quote:
Paul seems to echo this in Titus 3:5 when he says,
"Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration[water], and renewing of the Holy Ghost[Spirit]."

Those verses bring the ideas of water and spirit together, the passage speaks of regeneration by water and the Spirit.


Ron this passage was in my mind too, but what would 'regeneration by water' mean? If we ask what does 'regeneration by Spirit' mean I think we have a ready answer, but 'regeneration by water'?

In the verse above, would you see 'the laver of regeneration' as the exact equivalent of 'born of water'? if so does this imply that we can divide them one from the other?


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Ron Bailey

 2005/3/22 3:20Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2736
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

Quote:
Ron this passage was in my mind too, but what would 'regeneration by water' mean? If we ask what does 'regeneration by Spirit' mean I think we have a ready answer, but 'regeneration by water'? In the verse above, would you see 'the laver of regeneration' as the exact equivalent of 'born of water'? if so does this imply that we can divide them one from the other?



Good questions. I believe the [i]washing of regeneration[/i] speaks of the inward work of God of which baptism is the outward seal. Water purifies and signifies the removing of the guilt of sin.

Arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling upon the name of the Lord (Acts 22:16)

That he might sanctify and cleanse us by the washing of water by the word.(Eph 5:26)

Now I don't believe that one is literally saved by baptism but perhaps figuratively. I believe the seal of baptism is of great importance however we shouldn't put our trust in the sacrament of baptism but rather-as Peter says-we should look to the answer of a good conscience (see 1 Peter 3:21).

I don't see the laver as the exact equivalent, although I believe it does picture this and also it pictures the daily cleansing of defilement as we live in this world.

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2005/3/22 9:46Profile





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