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DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 Healing

This can be a controversial topic with some in the Church as to whether or not God heals whether it is all the time or just some time or none of the time.

Scripture points out that Jesus healed multitudes but in John 5 it shows that Jesus didn't heal everyone but it doesn't point that out either.

When a Christian comes to you and tells you that Jesus died so you can be healed and to claim your healing and so forth what should our reaction be? Amen Praise the Lord!? Should it be 'Wait a minute!' Or something else?


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John

 2013/7/18 19:08Profile
romanchog
Member



Joined: 2011/10/27
Posts: 326


 Re: Healing

I was just discussing this someone. This is what I said:

"One thing I have learned about healing is that God nowhere promises that He will heal everybody. I know that Jesus healed everyone who asked, but other than that there is no promise of healing. God is definitely the Healer, so all healing comes from Him. But I have discovered that His concern is more with our eternity and His Glory than with our physical condition. He will use disease to achieve this aim.

Even the scripture that is often quoted about healing from Isaiah 53 ("by His stripes we are healed") is not about our physical bodies. If you read Peter's use of this scripture in 1 Peter 2:24-25, Peter attaches this to salvation (i.e. healing from sin) and not to bodily healing.

“He himself bore our sins” in his body on the cross, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; “by his wounds you have been healed.” For “you were like sheep going astray,” but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.

Every time I see someone say that healing is already ours it makes me nervous. That is where a lot of people start doubting God because they do not see healing come to them. While I knew that God was perfectly capable of healing my husband, and I prayed for that, I also knew that I had to submit to His will in that. It is a hard line to walk when God asks you to believe that He can do something (we must believe to receive) but at the same time knowing that He may not give it. To be honest, I felt that God was a little cruel, because I held hope in Him that my husband would live (as I felt I was supposed to) which I think made the death all the more difficult. Still I know that God is good and it simply means that I do not understand Him."



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Natalie

 2013/7/18 20:26Profile
Lysa
Member



Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3394
East TN (for now)

 Re: Healing

///by DEADn

This can be a controversial topic with some in the Church as to whether or not God heals whether it is all the time or just some time or none of the time.

Scripture points out that Jesus healed multitudes but in John 5 it shows that Jesus didn't heal everyone but it doesn't point that out either.

When a Christian comes to you and tells you that Jesus died so you can be healed and to claim your healing and so forth what should our reaction be? Amen Praise the Lord!? Should it be 'Wait a minute!' Or something else?////

I have a friend who I don't talk to much and this topic (name it and claim it is what I call it), is the very reason why we are not close anymore. She was telling all about the benefits a few years ago of believing this way and I asked her why she had none of these benefits, she looked at me with a straight face and said, "I don't have enough faith."

I tried to talk to her but that is like to talking to any other type of person who believes what they believe is the only truth. You can't even reason with them. It's sad, really.

God bless,
Lisa


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Lisa

 2013/7/18 21:22Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 Re:

Quote:

I have a friend who I don't talk to much and this topic (name it and claim it is what I call it), is the very reason why we are not close anymore. She was telling all about the benefits a few years ago of believing this way and I asked her why she had none of these benefits, she looked at me with a straight face and said, "I don't have enough faith."

I tried to talk to her but that is like to talking to any other type of person who believes what they believe is the only truth. You can't even reason with them. It's sad, really.



Reminds me of the friend I had who passed away from cancer. I think the issue with this thinking is that they have their emotions whipped up by the church they attend and their faith ends up in their emotions and they tell you what God's Word supposedly says and then they want to seemingly condemn you for maybe not having enough faith to believe you are healed.


My wife recently had double lumbar fusion surgery. She is doing remarkable well for be out 2 weeks now. Even the doctor says so. An acquaintance online tells me to claim her healing and I told her I can do that but that doesn't mean she is going to be healed in an instance. She seemed to get mad and give me all kinds of scripture. I plan on showing her John 5 and asking why did Jesus focus on this one man and not heal all of them at the pool?

Anyway, my wife is somewhat fit but I would like to this this recovery is a God recovery. Beforehand she couldn't walk 2 blocks without pain. Today she walked 2.2 miles in 3 parts and she has noticed her pain level going down.


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John

 2013/7/18 21:41Profile
Sidewalk
Member



Joined: 2011/11/11
Posts: 706
San Diego

 Re: Thoughts on healing

In Mark 5, Jesus is summoned to the home of Jairus whose daughter lay near death. Jesus was willing to go to her with her father.

On the way He was delayed with the incident of the woman with a bleeding issue, and He took the time to honor her faith with the healing she sought. It shows how during His travels He seems to always be looking for faith.

"When the Son of Man comes, will He find faith in the earth?"

Approaching Jairus' home, the people come out to inform Jesus and Jairus that it is too late, the girl is dead.

What Jesus does here is critical. He dismisses the crowd, takes a couple disciples and Jairus into the house. The text says merely that He tells Jairus to continue to believe, but I suspect it was more dramatic than that. I believe he grabbed the man with firm desperation in His eyes and yelled into Jairus' face- "Hang on! Hold your faith! Don't stop believing!!

Because Jesus knew something very important, He could not do this work without the cooperation of Jairus' faith!

The little group led by Jesus goes into the room where the girl lay deathly still... actually dead as Jesus knew. But He who conquers death spoke to her and she sat up alive. Jairus knew she would, he was believing! The disciples probably knew too, operating in a faith that contributed in the room, confident in their friend and Master.

So that is Mark 5.

But in Mark 6 Jesus goes out near His hometown and begins hearing the criticism. Verse 5 says He could do no miracles there except for a few healings. His ability to do miracles was thwarted by the unbelief, and it grieved Him.

Healing is a very elusive gift, and as a result there have been great rifts and controversies in the church since the times of the apostles. Yet I can't find any scriptural evidence that there are times and occasions where Jesus does not want to heal his hurting sheep. And if there is any clue to "how it works," the believer's faith combines with the power of God to create the miracle.

I see the words, "I am willing." Always Jesus' attitude.

So I continue to pray for healing, and have seen some evidence that those prayers made a difference. I ask with the disciples, "God increase my faith!"

If truly the Lord Jesus needs my faith, feeble though it may be to effect a healing miracle, I don't want to have him hear me say "I was afraid to pray!"


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Tom Cameron

 2013/7/18 23:24Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re:

mark 6:5 And he could there do no mighty work, save that he laid his hands upon a few sick folk, and healed [them].v6 And he marvelled because of their unbelief. And he went round about the villages, teaching

Their unbelief was them not going to Jesus.

When Jesus addresses Jairus in ch5 He in essence was saying nothing more that trust Me. I think Jesus asks all of us at times to trust Him beyond the grave, it is not easy, it is necessary though.


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D.Miller

 2013/7/19 0:58Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: Healing

I think , rather than risk damaging what some call faith for healing, I just smile and keep those needing it in prayer. I have needed healings , salvations if you will since salvation also encompasses healings physically.

I Am not altogether sure we can just claim anything, because what I see in the gospel story is a progression in the walk with or following after Jesus. I think the closer you get to the Holy One the closer you get to wholeness, but that doesn't always mean healing physically in this life..it does mean yielding to the Love and foreknowledge of God. The lack of "thy will be done" is often times over shadowed by our desperate reach to continue living in this life, and that is not a bad thing, it is totally human, and we are humans. :/


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D.Miller

 2013/7/19 1:14Profile









 Re:

And some are given a "thorn in the flesh". A gift, from God's perspective.

 2013/7/19 7:28
Solomon101
Member



Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 529
America's Heartand

 Re:

Quote:
And some are given a "thorn in the flesh". A gift, from God's perspective.



I am planning to largely stay out of this discussion. However, this "thorn in the flesh" is such a common error that I felt it should be addressed.

The "thorn in the flesh" is never a sickness or disease in the scriptures. You will find it mentioned in the Old Testament describing the inhabitants of the Promised Land. Israel was told that if they did not destroy them all they would become thorns and pricks in their flesh and eyes. It was figurative (obviously). Biblical interpretive law of first occurrence means it will almost always be figurative.

I assume you are referencing Paul's "thorn in the flesh". It was no "gift from God". Paul said it came directly from satan. Specifically "a messenger of satan".

Greek is the word "angelos". It is the word we normally translate as "angel". This isn't God's angel such as Michael or Gabrielle. It is satan's angel. Paul tells us so.

You also find it "buffets" or strikes repeated blows. Good study is to list every city in chronological order that Paul went to and then beside it list what happened to Paul there.

How satan's angel (a demon) was striking Paul repeatedly is fairly apparent if you detail the story.

Much more to it than I have time for this morning. However, it is clear that there is zero chance Paul's "thorn in the flesh" was a sickness or a disease. It was not. It was a specific demon assigned to repeatedly strike at Paul. Paul said so himself.

 2013/7/19 8:34Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5374
NC, USA

 Re:

romanchog wrote:

"If you read Peter's use of this scripture in 1 Peter 2:24-25, Peter attaches this to salvation (i.e. healing from sin) and not to bodily healing."

True, but Matthew DOES apply Is 53 to physical healing:

"When evening came, many who were demon-possessed were brought to him, and he drove out the spirits with a word and healed all the sick. This was to fulfill what was spoken through the prophet Isaiah:

“He took up our infirmities
and bore our diseases.” Mt 8:16-17


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Todd

 2013/7/19 10:12Profile





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