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Another issue that ties into this is church discipline. Matthew 18 and 1 & 2 Corinthians are prime examples of church discipline. Church discipline will result in the repentance of a believer or it will result in safeguarding the flock from an unbeliever who is spreading lies and deceit.
| 2013/7/16 15:44||Profile|
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Church discipline seems to have taken a back seat to pews filled with tithers.
| 2013/7/16 15:49|
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That's something I have been pushing to teach in my church. It's scary though. It always seems to either get taken to one extreme--where a brother, filled with pride, gladly takes a swing at his brother in front of the whole congregation--or the other extreme--where everyone says, "Oh, it isn't that bad. It's not like they are killing people." and it just keeps growing and growing as a problem.
I wanna see men who humble themselves and prayerfully and lovingly correct other brothers for the sake of the Gospel, who don't rejoice if it ever comes down to removing them from the fellowship, who accepts back with open arms those who repent, who can take loving correction as well, and who watch themselves, lest they fall. If we, seeking the Lord, humbling ourselves, I believe it is possible. This will not harm us, but benefit us incredibly.
What do you guys think? I am not a church discipline guru, but I believe it could work, if we do it biblically. Is this done at any of your churches?
| 2013/7/16 16:28||Profile|
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havok, I cannot even relate to what you are talking about. I'm in a house church where everyone loves each other and no one is protecting any "turf" or taking advantage of one another.
I would go find a few brothers that want to dwell in peace, focus on Jesus and hang out with them.
Read Jeremiah 9.
| 2013/7/16 16:54|
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I was in a meeting where a person got up with a supposed prophetic message and the speaker told them to sit down and be silent. The down side with many discernment articles is that while they can present some truth, they often neglect love of the brethren,..."by this shall all men know that you are my disciples....Love, one toward another"... It would appear that suspicion is the seed planted with division being the fruit born..Unfortunately to go the opposite direction can be equally damaging. I think 2 Cor 12 is probably a good place to start when looking at people who desire to minister in the congregation, whether from the pulpit or the pew.
| 2013/7/16 16:56||Profile|
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It seems to me that many people are just related by the organization they belong to, the meetings they attend and the programs they have volunteered for. And for some reason they think they treat each other, rudely.
That is a lot different than seeing yourself related to one another through Christ, as sisters and brothers in a world that hates Him.
| 2013/7/16 17:38|
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it's great that you have a fellowship that does that. Church discipline is in the scriptures for a reason. I have seen it needed where I attend. If you guys don't need it, that's great!
| 2013/7/16 17:45||Profile|
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We have not needed it as a corporate body. Fathers and Mothers bring discipline in their own families. We have not had anyone acting rebellious in our gatherings or trying to take over the fellowship meeting or living in open sin.
We have had people come through and try to hijack the fellowship with doctrine like sabbath-keeping, but ended up realizing they could not, and moved on.
We just told them that if they believe God is telling them to keep Saturday as the Sabbath, then they better obey the Lord, but He has not spoken that to us. They realized they could not put a wedge between us and with no one agreeing with them, they moved on.
Another fella, wanted to start evangelization "programs", judging that we did not evangelize enough (how could he know that?) so some brothers went with him downtown to preach (to support him) and we went out with him one day to a park (again, to support him) and in the middle of our picnic, he jumped up on a picnic table and started preaching fire and brimstone to the crowd. It wasn't even annointed and lacked compassion and brokenness.
He ended up moving on. We did not tell him to go.
The fact of the matter is that everyone goes to work, shops, has family members that don't know the Lord, and any number of other relationships they have, where they are next to people and have many chances (led by the Spirit) to share the gospel.
I guess this fella was a bit uncomfortable with open meetings and wanted to "organize" us.
Anyway, been together for over 10 years and several new families have joined, lately. Not that numbers mean anything (they never have). Kids have grown up, many are teenagers, some love the Lord and some are slowly making their way towards Calvary.
One piece of advice is don't build a fellowship on meetings. Be friends and be involved in each other's lives during the week.
| 2013/7/16 18:17|
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"Is this done at any of your churches?"
We have a brother in our church that struggles with immorality. At the present I am not sure of his membership status, but he has been banned from holding any church office, assume any leadership position, including teaching, having a devotional or any business office. He attends and the leadership is working with him...
Havok, you are right, if church discipline would be used it would do a lot to weed out the leaven that infects the entire body of Believers. Having said that, I have never seen it done perfectly, but I suppose that even feeble attempts are better then none at all although a pastor can soon run into selective confrontation depending on the offender, becoming political.
I understand Greg's concern and commend him for sharing OP.
| 2013/7/16 19:27||Profile|
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"The article ENCOURAGES people to reject anything supernural based on the fact that it is supernatural. What a total perversion of truth that is."
I see your angle, but i disagree with your assessment of this post.
I see this sort of thing on these forums quite often! You have read something into this article that's not there. If you will go back and carefully read the article, the emphasis is on false teachers and prophets who use the "miraculous" to decieve, which according to Mt 7 & 24 is a real possibility. The writer never stated that the supernatural or miracles themself were a form of deception. Now that may have been what the writer meant, but that's not what was written. He wrote that false teacher who use the supernatural to deceive are the ones we need to be on guard against.
Having said that, I agree that presenting a problem without giving a solution is not helpful. This too is a very common occurrence on SI. I'm sure ive done exactly the same thing. I do think this letter was intended for more mature christians who know these things but who simply need to be reminded that deception is real.
| 2013/7/16 19:35||Profile|