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DEADn
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Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 black and white world or is there gray as well?

There are Christians who see the world in black and white while others see some gray areas as well.

I have another acquaintance who is a new believer. He is all about Satan the deceiver and God the deliver. To the extent that it seems everything around us is either of God or satan inspired. He is very over the top and I think part of this trigger stems from some of the preachers he gives himself over to. I.E. Rod Parsely.

I have butted heads with him over some issues of what I consider gray areas. i.e. If I mow the grass in the afternoon and feel light headed. I probably didn't drink enough water and I should wait until the evening.
i.e. (true story) I went to open the passenger car door for my wife and I literally ripped the handle off the door.

I do not ascribe to the black and white world because I believe it to be very unbalanced and might even lead to a mental breakdown in the end. This man has sown alot of bad seed, in my opinion, with many of the people on this other forum because of his wording style. I liken it to a preacher who does hellfire and brimestore.

Please comment and also tell me how you see the world - black and white or is there also gray in the middle and how you come to that conclusion.

I ascribe to the gray in the middle and I have given some examples of that. btw, he attends Calvary Chapel.


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John

 2013/7/14 9:55Profile
dohzman
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Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: black and white world or is there gray as well?

Behold, they shall surely gather together, [but] not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake.Isa 54

I guess I personally see the enemy as a real to life adversary but do not try to fixate on that fact. For example: your car door, if it happened once, no big deal, things in this life wear out, but if it happened to the car door, the house entry door, the bathroom door and bed room door all in the same day, I might than be looking at outside causes.But just like any real to life warzone some awareness, commonsense and battle readiness goes along way to keep us safe. As to everything being either God or the devil? Thats been debated for a long long time now by more godly men than I:) good luck with your survey on this topic.


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D.Miller

 2013/7/14 13:16Profile
PQ
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Joined: 2009/12/6
Posts: 101
Europe

 Re: black and white world or is there gray as well?

John 3:34 - For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Isaiah 11:2-3 tells us that the seven spirit of GOD rested upon our LORD Jesus.

This is what some people forget that the prophets of old did not function with the seven spirit of GOD, they all had a measure.
Our LORD Jesus was filled with the fullness of GOD. And He tells us in John 20:21 - "Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you."
Therefore since the Father sent Jesus and gave Him the Spirit without measure. Even so our LORD Jesus sent us and gives to us the Spirit without measure.

We are told in Ephesians 3:19 - "And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God."

We are expected to preach the full Gospel with balance. Yet some people love to tell half of the story.
The truth is our LORD Jesus has resurrected and is seated at the right hand of GOD, and we are seated together with Him. Glory!
Thinking about what GOD has given the believer should make us ashamed to even consider having a down day.
We are more than conquerors through Him Who loves us.


pq*


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PQ

 2013/7/14 13:22Profile
DEADn
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Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 Re:

Quote:

John 3:34 - For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him.

Isaiah 11:2-3 tells us that the seven spirit of GOD rested upon our LORD Jesus.

This is what some people forget that the prophets of old did not function with the seven spirit of GOD, they all had a measure.
Our LORD Jesus was filled with the fullness of GOD. And He tells us in John 20:21 - "Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you."
Therefore since the Father sent Jesus and gave Him the Spirit without measure. Even so our LORD Jesus sent us and gives to us the Spirit without measure.

We are told in Ephesians 3:19 - "And to know the love of Christ, which passeth knowledge, that ye might be filled with all the fulness of God."

We are expected to preach the full Gospel with balance. Yet some people love to tell half of the story.
The truth is our LORD Jesus has resurrected and is seated at the right hand of GOD, and we are seated together with Him. Glory!
Thinking about what GOD has given the believer should make us ashamed to even consider having a down day.
We are more than conquerors through Him Who loves us.



I am left trying to understand how this applies to my comment/question. Please help me with this.


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John

 2013/7/14 14:29Profile
DEADn
Member



Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 Re:

Quote:

Behold, they shall surely gather together, [but] not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake.Isa 54

I guess I personally see the enemy as a real to life adversary but do not try to fixate on that fact. For example: your car door, if it happened once, no big deal, things in this life wear out, but if it happened to the car door, the house entry door, the bathroom door and bed room door all in the same day, I might than be looking at outside causes.But just like any real to life warzone some awareness, commonsense and battle readiness goes along way to keep us safe. As to everything being either God or the devil? Thats been debated for a long long time now by more godly men than I:) good luck with your survey on this topic.





I would agree with this.
I think and I believe that when any Christian believes that everything around them is spiritual warfare they have a very unbalanced view of the world around them and they can actually harm themselves and those around them with a reality that doesn't exist and create disillusionment.


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John

 2013/7/14 14:34Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
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Joined: 2003/11/23
Posts: 4499


 Re: black and white world or is there gray as well?

Hi DEADn,

When I first came to Christ, I had a tendency to see EVERYTHING as "black and white." I say "black and white" in a general sense.

What I mean by it is that I submerged myself into the Word of God. The summer that I met the Lord, I read the Bible (cover to cover) repeatedly. I just couldn't get enough! I also spent enormous amounts of time in prayer (it was, after all, the summer and I was still in school). It was all new to me -- a belief in God, the knowledge that I knew this God, the power of His Word, the truth of the Gospel, etc... So, I took whatever I felt that the Bible was saying and applied it to everything in my life -- including everything that I had previously learned and all of the interactions as well.

I suppose that this is common for many new believers. It was especially true for me because I had gone from a strong embrace of an agnostic view about life and "faith" to one of complete surrender to God. So, I felt that I had literally passed from darkness to light ("black" to "white").

This attitude affected some of the relationships that I had.

I went from having parents, siblings, ministers and other Christians pleading with me to come to Christ and live for God...to literally questioning the validity of their faith due to some of what I felt were "worldly" habits. I began to judge others by my own experiences in terms of my testimony. If someone didn't seem to spend as much time in prayer as I did, I questioned whether or not they truly knew the Lord. If someone didn't believe what I believed in terms of doctrines, I questioned how they could be a "real Christian." Although I stayed away from being "coached" on doctrinal issues by pastors and teachers, I formed my own views and would vigorously argue with those who disagreed. I would debate Christians from other denominations or doctrinal perspectives to the point that, in retrospect, I know that I was especially condescending. While I probably didn't say it, I questioned their maturity and, at times, their relationship with God.

As a new believer, I immediately realized how little that I "fit" in this world. I was so constantly aware that I was an "outsider" and nothing more than an "ambassador" to a lost world that I questioned how real believers who seemed more "content" in the affairs of this life could truly know God. For me, it seemed that ALL of my tastes had changed the moment that I committed my heart to Christ. The change was sudden. I threw away my comic book collection, threw away my video games, threw away a big portion of my wardrobe, stopped "cold turkey" when it came to music, television, movies, books, etc... I stopped "hanging out" with my old set of friends (except in a constant effort to convert them to Christ). I would "spiritualize" everything that I did -- even to the point of praying over everything from the type of toothpaste/toothbrush that I should use to carefully researching each musician before I would sing a worship song.

So, this was a bit of "black and white" perspective that I felt as a believer. After some time, this attitude almost felt like a "burden." It seemed like the only time that the burden would cease was when I spent time in prayer. I would pray for others...and I always seemed to feel that any "judgmental" attitude that I felt would dissipate in the presence of God.

When praying, I felt convicted that I wasn't loving people unconditionally or treating them how I would want to be treated. I also realized that the Word of God was "black and white" -- it says what it means. However, it was also filled with RED. The words spoken by Jesus were always filled with grace and a longing by God to hold even the "most lost" of the lost (if they would just turn to Him).

Interestingly, I began to learn to rely on the grace of God the more that I learned of God's character. God doesn't want people to perish. He doesn't long for people to go to Hell. Yet, Hell exists and Christ is the ONLY escape. Yet, at the same time, this holy God deserves the best that we can give to Him.

As I grew in the Lord, I remember stumbling and failing God. The words of Paul in Romans 7 ("the things that I don't want to do I keep on doing") became quite real. More and more, I found myself falling upon the mercy and grace of God. I remember being helped at the time by knowing that some of the "heroes" of the faith -- from the Old and New Testaments -- also endured their own failures and bad "good ideas." In addition, I noticed that my "view" and opinions on certain doctrinal issues changed as I grew in the faith and study of His Word. I regretted having previously taken such a "hard line" stand with certain believers -- even though I felt so certain that I was correct at the time.

As believers, we all have one thing in common. We are all confined to this side of that "glass darkly." None of us have arrived to the point of earthly perfection. We are not spiritually "invincible" because we are all at different stages of maturity and it only takes a single stumble into a well-placed pit to "make a mess" of ourselves and require a rescue from the Lord. Thus, it is good to always remember that we each have different strengths and weaknesses.

In fact, this may be the key that keeps us from taking an absolute "black and white" attitude that affects our ability to love and interact with others. We must ALWAYS remain desperate for the help of the Lord. We can do NOTHING on our own! We must be aware of how easily it can be to fall short of God's perfection. This realization of our own failed humanity is one way to see and perceive other believers without placing ourselves ahead of them.

So, in a longwinded answer to your question, I think that we can be "black and white" when it comes to God's Word (what it says) but "red" (better than gray) when it comes to how we deal with others as well as how we perceive and rely on His grace for ourselves.


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Christopher

 2013/7/14 17:11Profile
DEADn
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Joined: 2011/1/12
Posts: 1357
Lakeland FL

 Re:

Great input CCCHHRRRIIISSS!

I want you to know that when I refer to black and white I am referring to everything being God inspired or devil inspired. The gray area is decisions we make that have neither a God inspired or devil inspired motive. Otherwise everything is God inspired or devil inspired. This is what I am referring to just as my examples in my previous posting.


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John

 2013/7/14 17:51Profile
romanchog
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Joined: 2011/10/27
Posts: 327


 Re:

I have had a very similar question in my heart. Let me start by explaining the premises that brought this to me. My husband had a VERY close walk with God. He was determined not to let the world contaminate his family and took great measures to instill the Word in us and to keep the world out of our home and family. On his deathbed, literally within a few hours of his death, his last words to me, which he struggled to speak, were: "Very soon everything is going to be either black or white."

Because of who spoke the words and the circumstances in which they were spoken, I have taken them very seriously. I know that he meant that things are either of God or they aren't. I know that this is Biblical. If something isn't of God, that does not mean that it is of the devil; it could be fleshly, worldly, etc. In the end, they are black because they are not of God and therefore should not be touched by us.

So how does this play out in real life? Some things are very obvious. Others, I have struggled with, such as my post about a month after my husband passed away on whether board games are proper (i.e., are they Godly or not).

In many things that are not addressed specifically or by implication in the Scriptures, I will say that the answer may be different for every person, because we are now under the law of the Spirit, and what may be ok and godly for me may not be ok for someone else. If we are truly led by the Spirit, then we will know what is wrong for us.
If I play board games and this feeds something in me that God does not approve of, then it is wrong.

So what I am saying is that I do not believe that there are things such as "gray areas" when we live in Christ. Everything is either of God or it is not, white or black. However, since we are different people, there are things that God will permit in my life that He won't permit in others.

What chris discussed was an awesome experience, but he failed in one area: MERCY. He failed to exercise mercy on others that did not see the black and white and instead condemned them by saying if they were not experiencing what he was experiencing they must not be believers. That is pride, not seeing that the grace of God is what gave him this wonderful experience, a grace that others had not received. How often I have failed in this same manner! May God have mercy on me for my pride.

I know I did not address your question directly, but I thought this may provide another perspective to the issue.

In Christ,
Natalie


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Natalie

 2013/7/14 22:57Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1714


 Re: black and white world or is there gray as well?

There are things that are White and Black in Bible. Those should be White and Black to all believers. For example Adultery is Black according to God's word and it should be for all believers.

For things that are not clear. We need to leave to the believers to decide.

1 Cor 6-12:-All things are lawful for me, but not all things are profitable. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be mastered by anything.

For me watching Movies are not profitable. They are NOT making me Christlike. When I watch movies I find them taking me out of reality into a different world of those Characters. A Good movie is normally one that succeeds you in making you rejoice when the Hero succeeds and making you cry when he fails. In short it takes you into a different world. I find it similar to alcohol or drugs that take you into a different world. So I do not find them profitable. This is my standard.

I cannot write a book on this and call movies Black. I want a believer to know for it by his own experience. To a baby no matter how much you tell her not to touch fire. She will come to realization only when she gets a fire wound.

Hebrews 5-14:-But solid food is for the mature, who because of practice have their senses trained to discern good and evil.

Spiritual maturity comes gradually by practice developing your discernment to identify what is Profitable and what is not. It will not come by reading a book on Black and White.

If our ambition and passion is to live wholly for the Lord and to have NO business with Satan and the world controlled by him, then God through Holy Spirit will reveal the areas in our life where we are having a business with him. Jesus absolutely did not have any business with Satan or the world controlled by him (John 14-30).

I would suggest you not to disturb the views of your friend. Who knows if he has developed his Black and White distinction by his personal experience instead of hearing a legalistic preacher. If it is through personal experience then he will stand else he will be a legalistic or a Pharisee.


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Sreeram

 2013/7/15 1:52Profile





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