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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Jonathan Edwards and double presdestination

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 Jonathan Edwards and double presdestination

would someone quote and reference where Jonathan Edwards wrote about his acceptance of the doctrine of double predestination in the sovereignty of God?

Quote:

He had long been an eager seeker after salvation and was not fully satisfied as to his own conversion until an experience in his last year in college, when he lost his feeling that the election of some to salvation and of others to eternal damnation was "a horrible doctrine," and reckoned it "exceedingly pleasant, bright and sweet."
-Wikepedia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Edwards_(theologian)



And if anyone is knowledgeable could he/she quote other famous Christians who have wrestled with this doctrine and have had breakthroughs about it?

Appreciate any help. I'm looking for insight on the topic of election, predestination, etc. Mostly famous Christian's personal experiences, not so much the doctrine itself.

 2013/7/13 17:41









 Re: Jonathan Edwards and double presdestination

http://mith.umd.edu/eada/html/display.php?docs=edwards_personalnarrative.xml&action=show

See bottom of page 3

 2013/7/13 18:03









 Re: Jonathan Edwards and double presdestination

On the Freedom of the Will Part IV, Sect. XIV
in The Works of Jonathan Edwards Vol. 1, page 88.

From these things it will inevitably follow, that however Christ in some sense may be said to die for all, and to redeem all visible Christians, yea, the whole world, by his death; yet there must be something particular in the design of his death, with respect to such as he intended should actually be saved thereby. As appears by what has been now shown, God has the actual salvation or redemption of a certain number in his proper absolute design, and of a certain number only; and therefore such a design only can be prosecuted in any thing God does, in order to the salvation of men. God pursues a proper design of the salvation of the elect in giving Christ to die, and prosecutes such a design with respect to no other, most strictly speaking; for it is impossible, that God should prosecute any other design than only such as he has: he certainly does not, in the highest propriety and strictness of speech, pursue a design that he has not. And, indeed, such a particularity and limitation of redemption will as infallibly follow, from the doctrine of God s foreknowledge, as from that of the decree. For it is as impossible, in strictness of speech, that God should prosecute a design, or aim at a thing, which he at the same time most perfectly knows will not be accomplished, as that he should use endeavours for that which is beside his decree.

 2013/7/13 18:08









 Re:

Doesn't that contradict John 3:17

"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
(John 3:17 NASB)

 2013/7/13 18:31









 Re: Jonathan Edwards and double presdestination

my dear Noah,

please believe me when I write that I am NOT being churlish, or singling you out or "picking on you", but "famous Christians"?...or the thought of "wrestling with doctrine"?

When we speak of "fame", isn't that the glorification of man?...veering close to idolatry?....do you think "noteworthy" might serve better?

as to "wrestling with doctrine", why not strive to wrestle with God?...or better yet, to "seek His Face"....to "take refuge IN Him"?...or to "wait upon Him"?

isn't it so wonderful to wait on God?....or the Divine thrill of seeking His Face?....I especially love the early watches of the day, when I am allowed the privilege to talk with Him!!

so you can see, I am NOT trying to be contentious with you, my beloved brother! Beloved!!....now if you please. what is this "predestination"...or "double predestination"?

from what I gather, it'sthe theory that God "predestined", who would be a son or daughter of God?. I will look it up, but where does Scripture say it is so?....

I appreciate that dear saint Jonathan Edwards, there was much fruit in the ministry God gave him. but i'm not so awed by another brother, slbeit a noteworthy brother, that I will just "yes and amen", whatever comes from his heart and pen....without conferring with God the Holy Spirit.

so..."predestination" and "election"...hmmm.....this might even be something to tackle in the early watces....what do you think? much much love to you in Messiah Jesus, neil

 2013/7/13 18:36









 Re:

noteworthy is closer. I was thinking more "helpful Christians" but that's subjective too. I could just say "could you find the perfect words from the best witness that would speak to me like God does so I can overcome my self-will and let God reign? ha!

to the early morning hours!

 2013/7/13 18:46









 Re: Jonathan Edwards and double presdestination

Quote:
Doesn't that contradict John 3:17

"For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him.
(John 3:17 NASB) NoahJD



In a word brother……the statement above by Jonathan Edwards does not contradict John 3:17.

 2013/7/13 19:41









 just wait a minute here

i'm digging into the various rivers of theo=thought and history, etc....and I know that many believers call them selves "Calvinist's"...that is correct, right?

God has given me insight into such self nomenclature, and as the LORD leads. anything other than proclaiming, "I follow Jesus"....or "I belong to God". to me, is putting the creature before the Creator, which is a whole nother topic, but I just read this of Calvin:

"Following his return, Calvin introduced new forms of church government and liturgy, despite the opposition of several powerful families in the city who tried to curb his authority. During this period, Michael Servetus, a Spaniard known for his heretical views, arrived in Geneva. He was denounced by Calvin and executed by the city council. "

so as I was determined to see if I read right, I looked up this man Servetus:

"He participated in the Protestant Reformation, and later developed a nontrinitarian Christology. Condemned by Catholics and Protestants alike, he was arrested in Geneva and burnt at the stake as a heretic by order of the Protestant Geneva governing council."

That is sickening. That is sinful. That sort of act is inspired by satan! It is murder.

Tell me WHERE in the New Covenant, chapter and verse, we are told to burn another man or woman at the stake?

Where did our Messiah Jesus EVER tell us to do such a hideous thing? I defy ANY of you, find me chapter and verse, where we are commanded to do such a thing?

and it was John Calvin that instigated this, and there are many here, who very loudly call themselves "Calvinists".

"oh it did so much good", I can hear in response...it doesn't matter....here's what else it says, and feel free to correct what I write:

"He regularly preached sermons throughout the week in Geneva. Calvin was influenced by the Augustinian tradition, which led him to expound the doctrine of predestination and the absolute sovereignty of God in salvation of the human soul from death and eternal damnation."

so he was influenced by the "Augustinian tradition", right.....which refers to "Augustine of Hippo ".......

this Augustine belonged 2that scarlet whore of a church in rome!

"Augustine developed the concept of the Catholic Church as a spiritual City of God (in a book of the same name), distinct from the material Earthly City."

I keep reading on in absolute horror:

"In the Catholic Church and the Anglican Communion, he is a saint, a pre-eminent Doctor of the Church, and the patron of the Augustinians. His memorial is celebrated on 28 August, the day of his death. He is the patron saint of brewers, printers, theologians, the alleviation of sore eyes, and a number of cities and dioceses.[10] Many Protestants, especially Calvinists, consider him to be one of the theological fathers of the Protestant Reformation due to his teachings on salvation and divine grace. In the Eastern Orthodox Church, he is also considered a saint, his feast day being celebrated on 15 June.[11] He carries the additional title of Blessed among the Orthodox, either as "Blessed Augustine" or "St. Augustine the Blessed."[12]"

sounds like this is the ORIGINAL proponent of the "ecumenicalism" ....that is just all so sickening..how far has this Most HOLY Simple Faith, known as The Way veered from its Precious Root in Messiah Jesus?!?....that you would claim the name of a man, who not only is a murderer, but follows the traditions of yet another man, who lived his whole earthly life and ministry in that scarlet whore rome?.....and call yourselves a "Calvinist"?...or for that matter call yourself ANY kind of "-ist"?

NO WONDER!!! we are at where we are today!!

All "Protestantism" REALLY is....but "rome-lite"!!!

"Catholics" call themselves "Christians". "Christians" will call themselves "Calvinists". a man with blood on his hands...and the whole thing, the whole institutionalized mess, with hundreds and hundreds of "denominations" is SO FAR from what Jesus preached and teached and taught....INCLUDING that SOARING High Priestly Prayer in John 17....that as the LORD leds me, we had better take everything AFTER 315 AD...and toss it, because it is the spirit of Babylon!!!

Its time to resolve what Paul resolved, about knowing NOTHING save "Christ and him Crucified"!...otherwise, God forbid, any of us here those dread Words of Jesus..."I never knew you"....

this is just terrible, I NEVER knew all this! Praise God I was raised in the "natural Vine", so that I could approach the Knowledge of Jesus Messiah with a "clean slate", and not be burdened with inculcated lies....to approach this Most Holy Faith, simple as a child, and my eyes are steadily opening to the horror of what is called "church history".

Its no wonder here and there, like small lights, there are those who prophetically speak of the "remnant Church".

I cannot write anymore. my heart is too broken at this second, but as my Father told me, "Joy comes in the morning"...I will tarry for such.


 2013/7/13 20:34









 Re: just wait a minute here

Thanks Hezwelling for your thoughts. I appreciate it.

My goal in posting was to figure out what others (esp famous or noteworthy men God had used and "approved") have gone through in dealing with Romans 9:11 (etc)/

I listened to several sermons by John Piper on this chapter and studied and contemplated the ins and outs. Today I read about Edwards. I don't want to get lost in a doctrine. But I do want to know how other godly men dealt with things like: their sin, their coming to the Lord, and their wrestling with bible passages like predestination, so that I might relate.

I have been going through many trials. I long to know what God is doing, if he has done this with people in the past, and what I can expect to happen to me in the future.

What is awesome is that as I progress I see a wonderful vision of a completion of my will and his will unified. Mine submitting to his of course. to do his will all the time and it feeling totally good and natural that way (like it is in heaven).

That's the hope.

Its sad about Calvin. Jesus surely didn't seem to teach us to do anything other than love, teach and leave vengeance up to God.

 2013/7/13 21:30









 Re:

Beloved Noah,
what I wrote from my heart and soul had nothing to do with your ardent love for Messiah, and your love for the brethren, I pray you know that, Good night dear brother, in Jesus love, neil

 2013/7/13 23:13





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