SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Looking for free sermon messages?
Sermon Podcast | Audio | Video

Discussion Forum : General Topics : Universalism Experiences a Revival

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( Previous Page 1 | 2 | 3 | 4 )
PosterThread









 Re:

Quote:
Let's talk about it. Let's consider it from all angles. There are always new people that have never heard of universal reconciliation.

Let's just have a peaceful discussion and stay in the Spirit. just-in



Debating with the Devil

"In a sudden unexpected moment I knew of him, he was at my right hand and his presence was all terrible and menace. I dared not comprehend it. I thought to die as he spoke to me. "Choose" he said. I looked at his offer and saw that it was a simple one. Yet in fear I still could not choose. He is more clever than I and soon understood it. So he came to my left hand also. All at once he was as a different man to me. Fear was gone. So I lifted my eyes, and looked at him straight. I saw that his countenance was as an angel of light. His breath was sweet and his eyes as waters of understanding. So I chose”

Andrew M R Kelly



 2013/7/12 19:02
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5237
NC, USA

 Re:

Hey Just-in--

I know the mods have not shut down this thread. But they have previously contacted me via email about a year ago not to discuss this topic. And they have shut down previous threads. Only discussion supporting the doctrine of hell as a place of conscious eternal torment is allowed. Of course that is not much of a discussion.

Their position is that the issue of hell as a place of conscious eternal torment is a settled fact and that any suggestion to the contrary is dangerous ground, if not outright heresy. Of course I very strongly disagree with this(even though I, once again, am not a proponent of UR); Hannah Whitehall Smith was a proponent of UR, and she was no heretic. Nor was George MacDonald, or William Law.

I must respect the moderator's decision on this matter; after all it is their forum to police as they see fit.

So, while I would like to discuss this in a civil manner without being branded as a heretic that should be burned at the stake, unfortunately I am unable to do so. But I must say it is somewhat frustrating to be unable to respond to the various points being raised.

I would say one thing to consider- is the overall tenor of scripture one of restoration and reconciliation with Jesus as the cosmic victor(Isa. 42:1-4/Col.2:15/ Heb.2:14/ 1 John 3:8), or is it rather one of defeat and loss with Jesus as the cosmic loser and satan the winner? I don't care what sort of spin people try to put on it-- if 99% or more of the souls that have ever live are consigned to a place of eternal torment, satan has won.

Once again I am able to make this statement without being a proponent of UR. However, it is enough to at least give me pause and make me consider the matter.


_________________
Todd

 2013/7/12 21:24Profile
Renoncer
Member



Joined: 2010/6/26
Posts: 477


 Re: TMK must repent

TMK said, "or is it rather one of defeat and loss with Jesus as the cosmic loser and satan the winner? I don't care what sort of spin people try to put on it-- if 99% or more of the souls that have ever live are consigned to a place of eternal torment, satan has won."

This comment reveals that you think you are wiser than God (although you probably won't admit it). Beware, lest God should not agree with your wisdom! Who's arrogant, the one who proclaims the Word of God with boldness, or the one who shakes his fist against God with boldness?

If God's plan doesn't fit in your theological framework, you mock God!

No wonder you reacted so strongly against my comment about whether or not we SUBMIT TO THE WORD OF GOD.
No wonder you keep pushing people to dabble into heresy and false teachings.

Sir (assuming you are a man), you must repent. Sadly, you probably are too arrogant to admit your sin and repent. I know your type. The Bible knows your type. In fact, the Scripture says, "As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned."
(Titus 3:10-11)

Your twisting of Scripture is very much in line with the Gnostics, the enemies of the Early Church and of the Christian faith.

The moderators should block you from this forum, lest you should ensnare those who are not well grounded in the truth.

In Christ (He who gets glory by saving the elect, and who gets glory by destroying his enemies, though numerous they may be...),
Renoncer

P.S.: See Romans 16:17-18 for my strong stance. In the off change that TMK should repent, I would be glad to welcome him (or her) back.

 2013/7/13 0:20Profile









 Re:

TMK,

Remember Satan's original desire was to take the place of the Almighty. That will never happen.

So, Satan and those that reject God have not won and Jesus has not lost.

Jesus never said that all men would be saved. If He said that, then yes, He would be the loser. But, He said "few would find it", and I believe that has already come true. If no one else chooses Jesus Christ, then it is already true that a few (relative to all that have ever lived) have been saved.

It's not so much about winning or losing from God's perspective as far as numbers go.

Jesus is after a Bride and the Holy Spirit will bring many sons to glory, and the Father will present a Bride to His Son. God is after a people, not just anyone, but those that will love Him with all their heart, soul, mind and strength. He is not looking for a double-minded bride that "serves more than one master". His bride won't have other lovers (idols).

Jesus will reject those that He does not know.

He is not a co-dependent, enabler whose ego will be damaged if all people do not turn to Him. What does one really have when they have forced others to love them?
'

 2013/7/13 2:07
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7431
Mississippi

 Re:

______________________________________________________________
QUOTE:
"Debating with the Devil

"In a sudden unexpected moment I knew of him, he was at my right hand and his presence was all terrible and menace. I dared not comprehend it. I thought to die as he spoke to me. "Choose" he said. I looked at his offer and saw that it was a simple one. Yet in fear I still could not choose. He is more clever than I and soon understood it. So he came to my left hand also. All at once he was as a different man to me. Fear was gone. So I lifted my eyes, and looked at him straight. I saw that his countenance was as an angel of light. His breath was sweet and his eyes as waters of understanding. So I chose”
______________________________________________________________


Very good description - because this is just the way the devil presents himself, as an angel of light - beautiful! Attractive! One that appeals to our senses!

Many years ago our ladies group studied a book by Rosalind Rinker. I forget the title but it had to do with loving others. It was such a sweet book - I promise! I applied those principles and backed off from absolutes - in my mind. Some years later "Christianity Today" magazine mentioned how she is the darling of the lesbian/homosexual community! (You can find on one of their websites how they promote her lit.) I was appalled! Shocked! But, yes, of course! If you embrace her philosophy of 'loving' you will accommodate perversion, giving them the benefit of the doubt, that under grace God will accommodate them without repentance. God is so wonderfully loving, so warm and fuzzy, does not demand anything!

I got mad, no, angry! I ditched that book, I burned it! I ditched it so bad I can not recall its title!! This experience taught me how sly, deceptive the devil is. Today when I hear people talk about how Christians are not loving I think back to this experience.

Another way the devil is sly is giving visions of life beyond. People see beautiful landscape...but no Jesus. I have heard of visions that were authentic - these people came back with a renewed passion to serve the LORD and warn people of the wrath to come. When this is not the case one will do well to realize this comes from the pit. (And yes, there are people who have been given a glimpse of hell and I am NOT talking about Mary K. Baxter's writings, either.)

We do well to be harmless as doves and wise as serpents.

God bless.


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2013/7/13 9:22Profile





©2002-2019 SermonIndex.net
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Privacy Policy