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murrcolr
Member



Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Quote by Justin: Our soul was not changed the day we were born again. So, there is a process of sanctification that we now begin to walk in as we experientially take back all the "land" that the enemy has stolen from us. The land is before us, it is there, and it is ours, but God wants us to deal with things in our heart and our past and we must, by faith apprehend these victories that await us.

Yes that is what we are taught throughout Christianity today that sanctification is a process but is it the truth?

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

We can clearly see that a transformation need to occur Paul’s say this done by the “renewing of your mind” what is the mind your soul because it is said to be you mind, will and emotions.

Mind – Nous Strong's G3563 the mind, comprising alike the faculties of perceiving and understanding and those of feeling, judging, determining.

So we see when they say mind it does not only say understanding and perception but also feeling which emotion, determining which is will power.

So you could say here be ye transformed by the renewing of your soul...

Look at what the word transform

Strong's G3339 – metamorphoō To change into another form, to transform, to transfigure

Look at what the word renewing

Strong's G342 - anakainōsisa renewal, renovation, complete change for the better

So let’s amplfiy the scripture..

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye change into another form by a complete change for the better of your soul, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

God can’t grow that which is corrupted; he doesn’t set up a process for change like what we would do. What he does is takes what is old and applies the cross and it’s put to death and it was put to death 2000 years ago but because it is put to death we can then be then raised with Christ and have his life.

All we need to do is believe it and will be sanctified…

Quote: This does not all happen in 1 day

It can happen in a moment


_________________
Colin Murray

 2013/7/12 17:17Profile









 Re:

Hi murcc,

You left me speechless only because I have never met anyone where it happened to them in a moment. Of course with God all things are possible. Are you for real? Are you being honest? Is this your experience or someone else you might know?

2Ti 2:21 IF A MAN THEREFORE PURGE HIMSELF from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

2Co 7:1 Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, LET US CLEANSE OURSELVES from all filthiness OF THE FLESH AND SPIRIT, PERFECTING HOLINESS in the fear of God.

1Jn 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him PURIFIETH HIMSELF, even as he is pure.

1Pe 1:22 SEEING YE HAVE PURIFIED YOUR SOULS IN OBEYING THE TRUTH through the Spirit unto unfeigned love of the brethren, see that ye love one another with a pure heart fervently:

Psa 119:9 BETH. Wherewithal shall a young man CLEANSE HIS WAY? by taking heed thereto according to thy word.

1Th 5:14 Now we exhort you, brethren, warn them that are unruly, comfort the feebleminded, SUPPORT THE WEAK, BE PATIENT TOWARD ALL MEN.

1Th 5:23 And the very God of peace SANCTIFY YOU WHOLLY; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

1Th 5:24 Faithful is he that calleth you, WHO ALSO WILL DO IT.

 2013/7/12 18:06









 Re:

I edited my previous post in case you missed it.

 2013/7/12 18:21









 Re:

I am a witness to an instant sanctification. It happened after a time of severe trial, I was on the point of giving up my faith. I longed to know God better and have a more authentic walk but I had failed so many times and could not stay 'on the mountain top'. I was tired and weary of being in the valley.

Then I read a book that explained to me that all I had to do was believe that Christ had done it for me and I could enter into it immediately by faith. I could be released from the power of sin that I still found in me. I just could not gain victory over the problems I had which caused me not to trust Christ entirely, or to have fears. My worst problem was anger, the leftover from a terrible childhood.

It was like a light had been turned on, I suddenly saw that what I read was the truth and immediately my whole life changed. I had been struggling in my own strength and now, I was in rapture, having the Lord appear to me as my sanctification. In three days the scriptures were opened up to me and I understood all of the things that were difficult before that.

I barely slept for three days and spent the whole time praising Him after being in the dust asking for forgiveness. Eventually I had to ask Him to reduce the intensity as it felt like my heart would not stand it much longer.

Soon after I began to understand what had happened to me by reading Christian writings about this.

 2013/7/12 18:35









 Re:

I don't have any problem with your testimony Kraufrau and maybe that is what Murrc meant. I was referring to the day of salvation. I have never met or heard of anyone that had your experience on their day of salvation. Of course my experience is limited.

But, let God be true and every man a liar.

Have you maintained your deliverance and sanctification? It's not automatic, is it?

You don't have to answer that.

 2013/7/12 19:40
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1714


 Re:

Quote:
by murrcolr on 2013/7/12 8:34:28

Quote: Rom 7: 22-23 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man

Quote: Here we have a clue. A Jew could not delight in the law of God after his inward man. Paul is speaking about the spirit of man here. The Jew obeyed the commandments after the outward man. He did not know yet that lusting after a woman was the same as committing adultery. He did not know that being angry with someone was the same as murder. He only knew that murder and adultery were against the 10 commandments and if he avoided them and the rest of the old law, he was justified.

Dont need to say more than that...



There are 2 flaws in this logic. The major flaw is not all the 10 commandments are external. The 10th command is internal. God kept it so that man could not win their salvation. It is do not covet. Paul mentioned this one command in Romans 7:7 and said he could not keep it. No unregenerated Jew can keep it.

Jesus called the Pharisees white washed tombs. If there is no inner man then what did he call dead?

The inner man Paul meant here is conscience, which bears witness of our sins. It is common for both believers and unbelievers.

A simple question, if Paul was still defeated as explained in Romans 7 then how could he witness that is conscience is absolutely clear before God and Man? There are numerous places in acts where he mentions it. Also to 1 Cor 4.


_________________
Sreeram

 2013/7/12 21:24Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1714


 Re:

Quote:
I am a witness to an instant sanctification. It happened after a time of severe trial, I was on the point of giving up my faith. I longed to know God better and have a more authentic walk but I had failed so many times and could not stay 'on the mountain top'. I was tired and weary of being in the valley.



I have a similar testimony as well. But I will not call it instant sanctification because there is no such thing in bible. To be I received Powe to overcome. The flesh was still the same and temptations were same but I got power to stand for god. Power that comes by resting in the bosom of Jesus.

If you believe you are already sanctified then are you now free from sin? This should contradict 1 John 1:8. In a practical way after that experience did you never get angry? Did you never lust?

I seen testimonies were people were delivered from few addictions the moment they were born again. Like smoking, drugs etc. but that does not mean they are sanctified. There are other sins that they need to overcome.


_________________
Sreeram

 2013/7/12 21:34Profile









 Re:

Quote just-in : Have you maintained your deliverance and sanctification? It's not automatic, is it?

After that experience, I soon found that although I was able to withstand temptation over conscious sins, there was still unconscious sin. I later had another encounter whereby I was entirely sanctified. The first was sanctification. Some second blessing teachers only get that far and it colours their understanding of the doctrine. The point is that the Holy Spirit enables us to walk as our Lord walked.

I have had periods of failing to keep to this and then times of longing to get back. I don't know why it has been so hard to maintain but others have said so too and even Peter fell from it for a while until Paul's rebuke restored him although it is not clear I think we can assume it.

 2013/7/13 2:44
brothagary
Member



Joined: 2011/10/23
Posts: 1863


 Re:

how do you know that you had unconscious sin ,were you conscious of it

the periods of falling and you saying it has been hard to maintain ,,this sounds like normal christanity and baptisim in the holky spirit ,,,

have you met any one who never falls ,,
HAVE you met any one as sanctified as the lord

the more I hear about this teaching ,the more it seems like Christianity defined differently

blessings

 2013/7/13 3:16Profile









 Re:

Quote sree : Jesus called the Pharisees white washed tombs. If there is no inner man then what did he call dead?


For most of the Jews, they did not have the inner cleansing, although there were exceptions as some were righteous but it was because they understood that it must be through faith in God, like Abraham, and not dependence on the the keeping of the law. The law of life which opposed the law of sin and death, was ratified on the cross but applied through all times.

Paul was not one of these and relied on the keeping of the law as seen when he said that, concerning zeal,persecuting the church, touching the righteousness which is in the law, he was blameless Phil. 3:6. His testimony does not match that which we find in Romans 7 as would be expected as he was no longer a Jew there but a fleshy believer.

But when he was a Jew, he thought with his human thinking that he was justified before God due to keeping the law and obviously thought that he was not envying his neighbour but realised this through the revelation he gained as a believer..

The inner man is not the soul and therefore the mind as the mind is still the outer man as evidenced by what Jesus said about the outer coating being thought of as washed.

 2013/7/13 3:31





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