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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Prosperity!

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Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re: money

Quote:
In each setting he had nothing of his own possession, but was prosperous.


The real danger with money is not the material things you can buy with it, but the spiritual things. Because it has the power to build church buildings in India, support missionaries in Africa, and send our kids to Christian schools, money can be a seductive idol for the church. We learn the evil of loving money precisely because money can do so much good.

That's why I think the NT teaches that prosperity is not looking in your bank account and finding a pile of money. Perfect prosperity is looking in your heart and finding not even a penny.

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2005/3/17 23:57Profile
geddingsm
Member



Joined: 2003/11/3
Posts: 61
south carolina

 Re:

Compton wrote:

Quote:

NT teaches that prosperity is not looking in your bank account and finding a pile of money. Perfect prosperity is looking in your heart and finding not even a penny.

MC


Just wanted to drop a note and say that from one who used to believe in WOF prosperity (health,wealth,etc) that is one of the best statements I've read about money.


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marvin geddings

 2005/3/18 0:52Profile
lastblast
Member



Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re:

Quote:
I think the NT teaches that prosperity is not looking in your bank account and finding a pile of money. Perfect prosperity is looking in your heart and finding not even a penny.



That is BEAUTIFUL Compton:-)..............

When I started following Jesus, the church my family attended was charismatic and followed such teachers as Copeland, Hagin, etc. Seeing these preachers brag about their expensive cars, homes, Italian shoes,etc, now bothers me beyond belief. I always had a 'check' in my spirit when I heard such things in my early Christian walk, but brushed such thoughts away since it appeared many who I thought as "Godly" believed this......surely it mustn't be "bad"...........sigh..........

Sometimes I think, "what must our brothers and sisters around the world who are living in utter poverty think of this prosperity gospel?" Will some think they are "lesser" Christians, less blessed by our Father, than we in America who are so "prosperous"? I sincerely hope not and even the thought some may believe this, hurts my heart. I do believe there are many STRONG believers in impoverished countries who look on us in pity.........knowing many of their sisters and brothers are overcome/in bondange with the love of money.

While we are praying for their persecuted state in lands that hate Christians, I'm quite sure there are many in those lands who are praying for us Western Christians.......that we learn the real Godly definition of prosperity so we will walk in His perfect peace in the midst of whatever storms of life come upon us...........Blessings, Cindy


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Cindy

 2005/3/18 13:00Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: Prosperity!



i've been wanting to post on this since it was first posted, but was a bit busy ...

i want to approach this topic of "prosperity" from the main perspective of what is meant by most people when they ask about it ... namely about "cash" ... "dollar bills" ... "dead presidents" ...

i've just recently come to the conclusion that excessive, and extravagant money, is really not of necessity to the child of God, unless God has chosen such a one in a unique stewardship position, for a much bigger reason than just the blessing one person far beyond their need ... i see God prospering Abraham because He'd sent him out of his own land (support system) to a new land just promised to him, and in the meanwhile Abraham had to be self sufficient to the needs of himself, and all that travelled with him, and all that would be born into him, and said prosperity had to do (exclusively i believe) with the established covenant God had made with Abram ... i think great wealth in a saint when given by God is a ministry to the welfare and well being of other covenant members ...

i think of Joseph, and am in agreement with brother Ron who posted;
"On two occasions it tells us that Joseph prospered; the first time when he was a slave, the second when he was a prisoner. In each setting he had nothing of his own possession, but was prosperous".

Joseph was always prosperous, even in pit and prison ... And tho both positions served to his own benefit, and to the benefit of those over him, it wasn't until God moved him to the palace that he himself was elevated to his God given "dreams" status, but in essence his job had not changed ... All before was just God's preparation of Joseph to be His own tried and trusted chief steward in the providing of the people of covenant (and even the heathen benefited) thru hard times ... What his brothers had neant for bad, God had already planned it out for good ...

Then i think of the nation of Israel itself how as poor slaves it was finally freed by God, but by the time Pharoah and Egypt let them go God caused their very inslavers to bestow them with all kinds of material wealth, amongst it a great deal of gold (that shiny bewitching metal that must always be kept in it's proper perspective) ... That wealth was to be to the benefit of the people, and in proper utilization toward God and His will on down the pike, but a very significant point imerges from this story in that the very blessing of such wealth caused some to turn it into a false idol of worship, and it cost them their lives ... Again, for me now, unless for the very specific purpose of God's provision to His own in covenant relationship, hopefully fully understood by any "one" or any "body" actually chosen of God in the stewardship of His wealth in such a distributionary ministry, great prosperity is not necessary at all, and i don't think should even be pursued in sufferance of the the pursuit of the kingdom of God and His righteousness, and i dare say is even dangerous to those who've gotten it otherwise than by God's direct hand, for i believe that there are lots of men, even saved, who've managed great sums by perspiration, but what if ALL of those great sums were required of them by God at one setting? ... Would they view it as His wealth, or their own? ...


i've not been one that satan could lure with the love of money, for i've never been one to go out of my way for it other than working the jobs God has provided me with to supply my needs ... i don't have an entrepreneurial gift (that i know of), and i've always been a real chicken when it comes to breaking the law so illegal has always been out of the question even in my BC days ... The chance of my attaining any type of great wealth has been in the past the purchasing of mega jack pot lottery tickets, and i shudder now to think of where i'd be had i had the misfortune of hitting one of those lotteries ... God is so good, even when we are so dumb! ... There would have been no way that i'd be hearing His voice as cleary as i do now ... i also praise Him that He didn't allow me that entrepreneurial gift in my youth, for had i been rolling in dough back then i doubt that i would have heeded His call in 79 at 29 ... Now let me share something that i recently went thru ...

Year before last i was holding onto a little nest egg, not a whole lotta money, $5,200. to be exact, and i kept hearing Holy Spirit say to me (for reasons i've posted on another post), "Give your nest egg to Me" (via my home church) ... i balked at first, saying to myself that it wasn't His voice i was hearing and that i was just tripping, but i knew better for i've walked with Him long enough, and have heard from Him often enough to know His voice when i hear it ... So i soon transfered it out of Savings and one Sunday just wrote the check and dropped it in the basket, trusting Him for my back, and feeling pretty good about myself afterwards ...

Just last week that nest egg crossed my mind and instantly Holy Spirit hit me with this series of questions ... "Would you have obeyed Me if it was $52,000"? ... i stammered, "Maybe Lord" (but felt such an awful tension in my soul) ... Then He asked, "How about if it was $520,000? (That sent my brain into short circuit and tensed my shoulders) ... "How about if it was $5,200,000? (My brain just locked up!) ... Then lastly, "How about if it was $52,000,000"? (i actually felt a sense of panic, gut tightening, and on coming hyper-ventilation) ... i caught myself, and suddenly i didn't feel like i'd done anything so great ... God had made His explicit point, and it made me think right away of the rich young ruler, and Jesus saying, "It is easier for a camel to go thru the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to inherit the kingdom of God" ... My, my, my ...

But that experience has convinced me of something, "It all belongs to Him, and it's up to Him what He decides to do with it, and up to us to obey and do whatever it is, with whatever the amount, if any of us are ever chosen as His steward(s) of conduit covenant provision toward the furtherance of His Church, His Commision, His Charity, His Kingdom via money, or prosperity as we call it ... To me that's the only biblical place and use for such prosperity, other than that i think we'd all be much better off thanking Him for our simpler lives and trusting His supply to our every need ... i've never been as thankful for such simplicity in Christ as i am now, and i thank Him for bringing Me to His peace ... But i'd also like to think from this experience that if i was ever in the position of having to "release" $52,000 to $52,000,000 to His decree that i'd do it in a heart beat, because at this late date the only way that i'd ever come across such sums would only be by His Divine decree, so i'd already know it ain't mine ...


Below are two scriptures that Holy Spirit has ministered to me about money ...

#1 - Money ain't nothing but a tool that when used for to much else anything past the furtherance of God's work on earth will cause the spender all kinds of trouble ...


Eccl.10: [19] - "A feast is made for laughter, and wine maketh merry: but money answereth all things".

Matthew Henry Complete Commentary on the Whole Bible
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Commentaries/MatthewHenryComplete/mhc-com.cgi?book=ec&chapter=010

"v. 19. Solomon seems to prefer money before mirth: A feast is made for laughter, not merely for eating, but chiefly for pleasant conversation and the society of friends, not the laughter of the fool, which is madness, but that of wise men, by which they fit themselves for business and severe studies. Spiritual feasts are made for spiritual laughter, holy joy in God. Wine makes merry, makes glad the life, but money is the measure of all things and answers all things. Pecuniae obediunt omnia—Money commands all things. Though wine make merry, it will not be a house for us, nor a bed, nor clothing, nor provisions and portions for children; but money, if men have enough of it, will be all these. The feast cannot be made without money, and, though men have wine, they are not so much disposed to be merry unless they have money for the necessary supports of life.

Money of itself answers nothing; it will neither feed nor clothe; but, as it is the instrument of commerce, it answers all the occasions of this present life. What is to be had may be had for money. But it answers nothing to the soul; it will not procure the pardon of sin, the favour of God, the peace of conscience; the soul, as it is not redeemed, so it is not maintained, with corruptible things as silver and gold.




#2 - If you become the possessor of excess cash (by His Divine hand) don't forget whose it is, who has entrusted you with it, and that it's to be used in provision towards His covenant promise to His own ... Divine prosperity to me (not like the prosperity herecy) is always about the provision to others, and not about provision to self ....

Deut.8
[18] But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is He that giveth thee power to get wealth, that He may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

Matthew Henry Complete Commentary on the Whole Bible
http://www.ccel.org/h/henry/mhc2/MHC05008.HTM

Moses, having mentioned the great plenty they would find in the land of Canaan, finds it necessary to caution them against the abuse of that plenty, which was a sin they would be the more prone to new that they came into the vineyard of the Lord, immediately out of a barren desert.

I. He directs them to the duty of a prosperous condition, v. 10. They are allowed to eat even to fulness, not to surfeiting no excess; but let them always remember their benefactor, the founder of their feast, and never fail to give thanks after meat: Then thou shalt bless the Lord thy God. 1. They must take heed of eating or drinking so much as to indispose themselves for this duty of blessing God, rather aiming to serve God therein with so much the more cheerfulness and enlargement. 2. They must not have any fellowship with those that, when they had eaten and were full, blessed false gods, as the Israelites themselves had done in their worship of the golden calf, Exod. xxxii. 6. 3. Whatever they had the comfort of God must have the glory of. As our Saviour has taught us to bless before we eat (Matt. xiv. 19, 20), so we are here taught to bless after meat. That is our Hosannah--God bless; this is our Hallelujah--Blessed be God. In every thing we must give thanks. From this law the religious Jews took up a laudable usage of blessing God, not only at their solemn meals, but upon other occasions; if they drank a cup of wine they lifted up their hands and said, Blessed be he that created the fruit of the vine to make glad the heart. If they did but smell at a flower, they said, Blessed be he that made this flower sweet. 4. When they gave thanks for the fruits of the land they must give thanks for the fruits of the land itself, which was given them by promise From all our comfortable enjoyments we must take occasion to thank God for our comfortable settlements; and I know not but we of this nation have as much reason as they had to give thanks for a good land.

II. He arms them against the temptations of a prosperous condition, and charges them to stand upon their guard against them: "When thou art settled in goodly houses of thy own building," v. 12 (for though God gave them houses which they builded not, ch. vi. 10, these would not serve them, they must have larger and finer),--"and when thou hast grown rich in cattle, in silver, and in gold (v. 13), as Abraham (Gen. xiii. 2),--when all thou hast is multiplied," 1. "Then take heed of pride. Beware lest then thy heart be lifted up," v. 14. When the estate rises, the mind is apt to rise with it, in self-conceit, self-complacency, and self-confidence. Let us therefore strive to keep the spirit low in a high condition; humility is both the ease and the ornament of prosperity. Take heed of saying, so much as in thy heart, that proud word, My power, even the might of my hand, hath gotten me this wealth, v. 17. Note, We must never take the praise of our prosperity to ourselves, nor attribute it to our ingenuity or industry; for bread is not always to the wise, nor riches to men of understanding, Eccl. ix. 11. It is spiritual idolatry thus to sacrifice to our own net, Hab. i. 16. 2. "Then take heed of forgetting God." This follows upon the lifting up on the heart; for it is through the pride of the countenance that the wicked seek not after God, Ps. x. 4. Those that admire themselves despise God. (1.) "Forget not thy duty to God." v. 11. We forget God if we keep not his commandments; we forget his authority over us, and our obligations to him and expectations from him, if we are not obedient to his laws. When men grow rich they are tempted to think religion a needless thing. They are happy without it, think it a thing below them and too hard upon them. Their dignity forbids them to stoop, and their liberty forbids them to serve. But we are basely ungrateful if the better God is to us the worse we are to him. (2.) "Forget not God's former dealings with thee. Thy deliverance out of Egypt, v. 14. The provision he made for thee in the wilderness, that great and terrible wilderness." They must never forget the impressions which the horror of that wilderness made upon them; see Jer. ii. 6, where it is called the very shadow of death. There God preserved them from being destroyed by the fiery serpents and scorpions, though sometimes he made use of them for their correction: there he kept them from perishing for want of water, following them with water out of a rock of flint (v. 15), out of which (says bishop Patrick) one would rather have expected fire than water. There he fed them with manna, of which before (v. 3), taking care to keep them alive, that he might do them good at their latter end, v. 16. Note, God reserves the best till the last for his Israel. However he may seem to deal hardly with them by the way, he will not fail to do them good at their latter end. (3.) "Forget not God's hand in thy present prosperity, v. 18. Remember it is he that giveth thee wealth; for he giveth thee power to get wealth." See here how God's giving and our getting are reconciled, and apply it to spiritual wealth. It is our duty to get wisdom, and above all our gettings to get understanding; and yet it is God's grace that gives wisdom, and when we have got it we must not say, It was the might of our hand that got it, but must own it was God that gave us power to get it, and therefore to him we must give the praise and consecrate the use of it. The blessing of the Lord on the hand of the diligent makes rich both for this world and for the other. He giveth thee power to get wealth, not so much to gratify thee, and make thee easy, as that he may establish his covenant. All God's gifts are in pursuance of his promises.









 2005/3/21 19:50Profile
Rahman
Member



Joined: 2004/3/24
Posts: 1374


 Re: Prosperity!


Brother Ron ...



i listened to Hezekiah, but what i was most blessed by was your ending prayer ... Man!

The heartfelt sincerity, and love for Christ, coming thru in your voice and tone i found most soul warming and very inspirational ...

Ha! ... Ha! ... now i hear your posts in your perfect English accent ...

God bless you bro! ... Keep on praying like that!

 2005/3/21 19:56Profile
Nasher
Member



Joined: 2003/7/28
Posts: 404
Watford, UK

 Re:

God wants us to be rich:

2 Corinthians 8:9
For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.

The next questions are, in what way was Christ rich? in what way did he become poor? in what way through his poverty can we become rich?


_________________
Mark Nash

 2005/3/22 5:07Profile
lastblast
Member



Joined: 2004/10/16
Posts: 528
Michigan

 Re:

Quote:
in what way was Christ rich? in what way did he become poor? in what way through his poverty can we become rich?



He was "rich" in the heavenly kingdom, which He left for our benefit.......in coming to the earthly kingdom, He became "poor"...........It is His desire that we too become "rich" by entering into the heavenly kingdom where the "riches" are.........Just my thoughts. Blessings in Jesus, Cindy :-)


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Cindy

 2005/3/22 9:17Profile





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