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Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK


The Great Tribulation

Now I wonder who thinks America going to turn into a some sort of Dictatorship with the Anti Christ as it ruler..

“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the elect’s sake those days will be shortened.” (Mat. 24:15-22)

When you see the ‘abomination of desolation' then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be.

You see the Anti Christ would want to set up shop in Jerusalem on the temple mount..

Jacobs trouble = Great Tribulation

Although the book of Revelation indicates that all those living on the earth immediately prior to the return of Jesus will be involved in troublesome times, this is especially true for the Jews.

Stanton shows the Jewish character of the period by saying:

“The tribulation is primarily Jewish. This fact is borne out by Old Testament Scriptures (Deu. 4:30; Jer. 30:7; Eze. 20:37; Dan. 12:1+; Zec. 13:8-9), by the Olivet Discourse of Christ (Mat. 24:9-26), and by the book of Revelation itself (Rev. 7:4-8+; 12:1-2+, 17+ etc.). It concerns ‘Daniel’s people,’ the coming of ‘false Messiah,’ the preaching of the ‘gospel of the kingdom,’ flight on the ‘sabbath,’ the temple and the ‘holy place,’ the land of Judea, the city of Jerusalem, the twelve ‘tribes of the children of Israel,’ the ‘son of Moses,’ ‘signs’ in the heavens, the ‘covenant’ with the Beast, the ‘sanctuary,’ the ‘sacrifice and the oblation’ of the temple ritual—these all speak of Israel and prove that the tribulation is largely a time when God deals with His ancient people prior to their entrance into the promised kingdom.”

We will greatly benefit by keeping in mind the purposes God has for this period of time

The first purpose is to make an end of wickedness and wicked ones (Isa. 13:9; Isa. 24:19-20) . . .

The second purpose of the Tribulation is to bring about a worldwide revival (Rev. 7:1-7+) . . .

The Third purpose of the Tribulation is to break the power of the stubborn will of the Jewish nation (Dan. 12:5-7+; Eze. 20:33-38).14

Colin Murray

 2013/6/29 9:42Profile


America has already turned into a Dictatorship. If you follow politics in America at all, she is no longer a Constitutional Republic in practice (only on paper).

America is basically an Oligarchy.

Oligarchy, is a form of power structure in which power effectively rests with a small number of people. These people could be distinguished by royalty, wealth, family ties, education, corporate, or military control. Such states are often controlled by a few prominent families who pass their influence from one generation to the next.

Throughout history, oligarchies have been tyrannical (relying on public obedience and/or oppression to exist) or relatively benign.

By the way, I don't believe the Anti-christ is personified as "one man." Others do, but I do not see it that way in the Scriptures. There are many anti-christs whose root is Satan.

What do you think the "Holy Place" is today?

Also, one identifying mark of dictatorships, is that they keep the people agitated and the country in chaos. This has become a defining "mark" in the USA. Constant agitation and chaos by the government which is supposed to work for the people but again, this is only on paper (Constitution) now in America. The Constitution is by and large ignored, the rule of law is deteriorating rapidly in the USA.

 2013/6/29 9:59

Joined: 2008/10/25
Posts: 3401
This world is not my home anymore.

 Re: Pre or Post Trib Discussion

by Diosesfiel
My prayer for the Church in the West is to be prepared for persecution, be prepared for the rapture, by staying close to our Saviours side. As Jesus said, 'watch and pray'. so let us pray for the body of Christ, that we will not be found wanting when He comes. Amen

I used to argue pre vs post but the Lord showed me this same argument has went on down through the ages and the people who have argued vehemently over these same topics and made enemies and grew walls in the body of Christ died not seeing what they believed come to pass. And what was the point? It is was all for naught, they wasted their time and effort on what “THEY” believed and thought was important about the Bible instead of just preaching and teaching the love of the Living Christ and Him only crucified.

A very dear friend told me, “It’s a distraction of the enemy,” to keep our focus off of the risen Christ. The Lord showed me that our life and our ministries can be overshadowed by things not of Him and is that what I want for me? Praise His holy name! He speaks if we stop and listen! Can you imagine if the whole body of Christ stopped arguing about this and other topics and just went about the Father’s business?!!! Woo hooo!! Things would move people!

God bless you,


 2013/6/29 12:42Profile

Joined: 2010/8/15
Posts: 272



"It seems the point of this thread is not to argue points that have been debated (and unsolved) for years, but rather to encourage us onward to go deeper with Christ, in which case the things of this world will grow strangely dim.. including eschatology things."

But the New Testament speaks so much about the last times, that it is impossible to ignore. Our hearts should want to see Christ in all His glory, His own inheritance dearly paid for when He humbled Himself and became obedient (to His Father) to death, even the death of the cross

(Php 2:9) Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:

(Php 2:10) That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

(Php 2:11) And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

This is speaking of end time, future events which should occupy our hearts now. They concern heavenly, earthly and under-earthly things be gathered in Christ.


(Eph 1:9) Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:

(Eph 1:10) That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:

Again, This is God's will and purpose in the future to gather all things in Christ.

And, concerning our (WE which are alive and remain) being caught up.

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Come Lord Jesus!

And I'm sure we know many more verses speaking of last time events which have been written for our edification and instruction, not only in the new testament, but the old testament prophesies are full of them.

I agree we need to keep our eyes on Jesus, and not have divisive intent to our brethren, but we should not be blinkered to truth revealed to us through the scriptures for fear of men.

NO BOOK OF THE BIBLE IS CLOSED to His children. God's ways, purposes mysteries and promises for all ages have been revealed in Christ and through His Word.



 2013/6/29 21:42Profile

Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5413


Hello DavidC-

Of course I do not know your specific eschatological views.

My comment was more of an observation that how we walk out our faith really should not be influenced by our specific view of the end times. If you were convinced through careful study that your current opinion on the subject was not correct(and this has happened to many, many people), how would it affect your walk with Christ? Would you abandon the faith? Would you decide to live a less holy life? Or more holy? Or would you simply continue on as usual, striving ahead and trying to become more like Christ?


 2013/6/30 8:03Profile

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