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Discussion Forum : General Topics : After the Tribulation: The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Fraud Exposed" Official Movie

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narrowpath
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Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1010
Germany NRW

 Re: After the Tribulation: The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Fraud Exposed" Official M

I am undecided on this matter, I can find valid proof texts for both views.

The pretrib view for me is not the easy way out but urges me to live holy and devoted to the Lord and prepared to meet the Lord at any time. I keep short accounts so that I am not caught out doing something shameful when the Lord returns.

In the same manner, we all need to face the possibility of sudden death and be ready to meet the Lord any time. That is in effect a pre trib rapture. The only differnce is that one is caused by death, the other by the return of the Lord.

The post-trib view reminds me that we are just pilgrims here on earth and we need to display the virtues of overcomers in perilious times ahead. Everything will be shaken and the sin of man will reach its climax right before the post trib rapture.

I could also accuse the post tribbers that they could be lured into living careless lifes and wait until the tribulation starts and say, I will be alright as long as I do not get the mark of the beast.

I am always for a healthy respectful discourse on these things, weighing up scripture passages and interpreting them.

I agree very much with poster PQ to prepare for both. Calling pre-trib believers heretics is not in the spirit of love.

Actually, at most times and in most places the majority of Christians experienced some type of persecution. Some Christians experience a great tribulation right now.

I would like to know the real answer to the pre/post trib issue but much more do I want to know how I need to live daily to be ready to meet the Lord any time and receive my reward.



 2013/6/27 10:59Profile
narrowpath
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Joined: 2005/1/9
Posts: 1010
Germany NRW

 Re:

Here is an article from the late Dave Hunt with scripture references. He shows that the rapture and second coming are two separate event.

http://www.thebereancall.org/content/pre-or-post-trib-rapture

HomeCurrentStore FreebiesTopicsLanguagesConferenceAbout YouAbout TBCFindHelpPre- or Post-Trib Rapture?
Hunt, Dave
Oct 1 2003
The Rapture of the church involves all believers being caught up to heaven—those just resurrected, together with those alive at the time (1 Thes:4:13-18 [13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
). If it occurs at the beginning of the tribulation period, then clearly Christ’s Second Coming at the end of the Tribulation to rescue Israel in the midst of Armageddon is a separate event. According to Zechariah:14:3-5 [3] Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
[4] And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.
[5] And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.
, “all the saints” must accompany Christ back to earth. But if the Rapture occurs at the end of the Tribulation, it must be simultaneous with the Second Coming, making them one event. Which is it: two events separated by seven years, or one event with two diverse purposes?

This question, though it has nothing to do with the gospel of salvation, divides much of the evangelical church. Happily, it can be settled rather easily. The descriptions in Scripture of the Rapture and Second Coming respectively are so different in so many details that they could not possibly be describing the same occurrence. We can’t cover all of these distinctions, but here are a few:

1) At the Rapture , Christ does not return to earth but catches believers up to meet Him above the earth, taking them directly to heaven: “I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also” (Jn:14:3And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again, and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also.); “caught up...to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord” (1 Thes:4:17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.).

In contrast, at the Second Coming Christ returns to this earth to rule Israel and the world from David’s throne in Jerusalem: “his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem” (Zec:14:4And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.); “the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David: And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end” (Lk 1:32, 33); “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him....The armies which are in heaven followed him....Out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and shall rule them with a rod of iron” (Rev:19:11-15 [11] And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
[12] His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
[13] And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
[14] And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
[15] And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
).

2) At the Rapture there is a resurrection of all believers who have died up to that time: “the dead shall be raised incorruptible” (1 Cor:15:52In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed., 53); “the dead in Christ shall rise first...” (1 Thes:4:16For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:).

In contrast, at the Second Coming there is no resurrection until Antichrist is defeated, he and the false prophet have been “cast alive into a lake of fire” (Rev:19:20And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.) and Satan has been bound in the “bottomless pit [for] a thousand years” (20:1-3) —none of which is even remotely related to the rapture of believers to heaven. Then, to “the first resurrection”which occurred at the Rapture are added a unique group: “them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshiped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands...they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years” (4, 5).

3) At the Rapture , the bodies of living believers (like those who are resurrected) will be changed to become immortal: “We shall not all sleep [i.e., die], but we shall all be changed...the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we [who are living] shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality” (1 Cor:15:51-53 [51] Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
[52] In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
[53] For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
); “we which are alive...shall be caught up together with them [the resurrected saints]...to meet the Lord in the air [clearly requiring immortal bodies]” (1 Thes:4:17Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.).

In contrast, at the Second Coming all of the saints return with Christ from heaven and will therefore already have been changed into immortality: “the Lord my God shall come, and all the saints with thee” (Zec:14:5And ye shall flee to the valley of the mountains; for the valley of the mountains shall reach unto Azal: yea, ye shall flee, like as ye fled from before the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah: and the LORD my God shall come, and all the saints with thee.); “I saw heaven opened [and one] clothed with a vesture dipped in blood...and the armies which were in heaven followed him [to] smite the nations” (Rev:19:11-15 [11] And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.
[12] His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.
[13] And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.
[14] And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.
[15] And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.
).

4) The Rapture occurs during relative peace and prosperity, when the world does not expect judgment from God: “And as it was in the days of Noah [the last thing they expected was God’s judgment]...they did eat, they drank...married wives...were given in marriage [and as in] the days of Lot...they bought, they sold...planted...builded....Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.” (Lk 17:26-30).

Again in complete contrast, the Second Coming occurs in the midst of the worst war the world has ever seen and following the greatest devastation this planet has ever suffered or ever will: “then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world...nor ever shall be. And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved” (Mat:24:21For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be., 22); “behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed...power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger....There was a great earthquake...every mountain and island were moved out of their places...[men] hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks...for the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?” (Rev:6:8-17 [8] And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth.
[9] And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held:
[10] And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long, O Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?
[11] And white robes were given unto every one of them; and it was said unto them, that they should rest yet for a little season, until their fellowservants also and their brethren, that should be killed as they were, should be fulfilled.
[12] And I beheld when he had opened the sixth seal, and, lo, there was a great earthquake; and the sun became black as sackcloth of hair, and the moon became as blood;
[13] And the stars of heaven fell unto the earth, even as a fig tree casteth her untimely figs, when she is shaken of a mighty wind.
[14] And the heaven departed as a scroll when it is rolled together; and every mountain and island were moved out of their places.
[15] And the kings of the earth, and the great men, and the rich men, and the chief captains, and the mighty men, and every bondman, and every free man, hid themselves in the dens and in the rocks of the mountains;
[16] And said to the mountains and rocks, Fall on us, and hide us from the face of him that sitteth on the throne, and from the wrath of the Lamb:
[17] For the great day of his wrath is come; and who shall be able to stand?
); “and the four angels were loosed...to slay the third part of men” (9:15); “and the...sea...became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea. And...the rivers and fountains of waters...became blood...the fourth angel poured out his vial upon the sun; and...men were scorched with great heat...and...there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth....And every island fled away and the mountains were not found. And there fell upon men a great hail [of large stones]...every stone about the weight of a talent” (16:3-21); “And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True....And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen....And I saw the beast [Antichrist], and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat upon the horse, and against his army. And the beast was taken, and...the false prophet [and they] were cast alive into a lake of fire...” (19:11-21).

5) The Rapture occurs when conditions in the world seem to indicate that all is well, when very few expect Christ to return and He catches even the church by surprise: “of that day and hour knoweth no man...in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh” (Mat:24:36But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only., 44).

In contrast, when the Second Coming occurs, not even Antichrist is caught by surprise—the many visible signs alert everyone that Christ is right at the door: “when ye shall see all these things, know that it [Christ’s coming] is near, even at the doors” (Mat:24:33So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.); “the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse” (Rev:19:19And I saw the beast, and the kings of the earth, and their armies, gathered together to make war against him that sat on the horse, and against his army.).

6) The Rapture occurs when the church is sleeping, with little expectation of the Lord’s return: “While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept” (Mat:25:5While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.); “Watch ye therefore...lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping” (Mk 13:35, 36).

In contrast, the Second Coming occurs at the end of the Tribulation in the midst of worldwide devastation and hopeless distress; the Antichrist and his armies are attacking Israel, much of Jerusalem is already captured (Zec:14:1Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee., 2), and Israel is on the verge of annihilation. It is inconceivable that the church, if it were still here, would be slumbering in complacency and under the delusion that “surely Christ wouldn’t come now”!

7) Since the Rapture instantly takes us, without dying, out of this world of sin, pain and sorrow to be forever with Christ and like Him, never more to grieve Him, it is called the “blessed hope”: “Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ” (Titus:2:13Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;); “every man that hath this hope” (1 Jn:3:3And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.).

In contrast, the Second Coming (or a post-trib rapture at that time) could hardly be called a “blessed hope,” inasmuch as very few Christians (if the church were still here) would survive to enjoy it. Having refused to receive the 666 mark of the beast “in their right hand, or in their forehead” and therefore being unable to “buy or sell,” and refusing to “worship the image of the beast [they would] be killed” (Rev:13:15-17 [15] And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed.
[16] And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
[17] And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
). It makes no sense to suggest that if you can secretly eat out of enough garbage pails to avoid starvation and still keep one step ahead of Antichrist’s world police death squads, “Blessed hope! You’ll be raptured at Armageddon!”

8) As for the Rapture , unquestionably, the early church was taught to expect it at any moment and to eagerly watch, wait and look for Christ’s return, when He will catch all believers up into His Father’s house to be with Him eternally: “Let your loins be girded about, and your lights burning; And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord...” (Lk 12:35, 36); “For our conversation is in heaven; from whence also we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body” (Philippians 3:20); “...ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God; And to wait for his Son from heaven...even Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come” (1 Thes:1:9For they themselves shew of us what manner of entering in we had unto you, and how ye turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God;, 10); “ looking for that blessed hope” (Titus:2:13Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;); “unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation” (Heb:9:28So Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many; and unto them that look for him shall he appear the second time without sin unto salvation.). One does not watch, wait and look each day for something that cannot happen until Antichrist’s advent or the end of a seven-year tribulation. Thus, there must be a coming of Christ that could happen at any moment.

In contrast, the Second Coming , by very definition as described in Scripture, cannot be expected momentarily. Therefore, none of the scriptures just quoted concerning watching and waiting and looking for the Lord could refer to the Second Coming or to a post-trib rapture of the church. These scriptures could therefore refer only to a pre-trib rapture.

9) The pre-trib Rapture has a powerful, purifying effect upon those who have this hope in Him. The fact that it is to be expected at any moment can only mean that it must come before Antichrist is revealed and before the Tribulation. If Christ could come at any moment, there is no time to waste, no time to delay witnessing, no time to indulge in sin with the idea of repenting and changing one’s ways later: “And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming” (1 Jn:2:28And now, little children, abide in him; that, when he shall appear, we may have confidence, and not be ashamed before him at his coming.); “And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure” (3:3).

In contrast, anticipation of the Second Coming (or a post-trib rapture at that time) could hardly have a purifying effect, because it can’t take place for at least seven years—plenty of time to delay witnessing, getting right with the Lord and holy living until later. In fact, the Lord said that believing he couldn’t come at any moment would have the opposite effect from purifying believers: “If that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants...and to eat and drink and to be drunken; the lord of that servant will come at an hour when he is not aware (Mat:24:48-49 [48] But and if that evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming;
[49] And shall begin to smite his fellowservants, and to eat and drink with the drunken;
; Lk 12:45, 46).

10) The Rapture is not only an event that we are to expect momentarily and to eagerly anticipate, but we are to ask our Lord to come immediately. Here is how the Bible ends: “And the Spirit and the bride say, Come....Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus” (Rev:22:17And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely., 20).

In contrast, the Second Coming is not of such a nature and timing that we could ask Christ to effect it right now. Since Christ obviously cannot return to the earth in judgment to rescue Israel, stop the destruction at Armageddon and destroy the Antichrist along with his kingdom and his armies until the end of the Tribulation, for us to cry out to Christ, “Come, Lord Jesus!” would be like demanding payment on a debt that isn’t due for seven years. Yet, “the Spirit and the bride” do cry out, “Come, Lord Jesus.” We can only conclude that there must be a coming of Christ that could occur at any moment. It cannot be the Second Coming or a post-trib rapture. It can only be a pre-trib rapture.

11) There are at least two events which occur in heaven for which the church must be present and which, therefore, cannot take place until the Rapture occurs: the judgment seat of Christ, and the marriage of the Lamb to His bride: “for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ” (Rom:14:10But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.); “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad” (2 Cor:5:10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.); “the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted [to] be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white [as a result of her cleansing at the judgment seat of Christ]” (Rev:19:7-8 [7] Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready.
[8] And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.
). Both these events occur prior to Christ’s return to earth and thus demand a prior rapture.

It is clear that the Second Coming cannot occur until these two vital events, which demand the presence of the church in heaven, have taken place. It is only after the Lamb has been married to His bride that she accompanies Him back to earth to rescue Israel and to destroy Antichrist and his armies: “And the armies which were in heaven followed him...clothed in fine linen, white and clean” (Rev:19:14And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.).

We know not why the Bridegroom tarries, but exactly as He foretold, the church is asleep. In that context, our Lord added: “And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him” (Mat:25:6And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.). May each of us be listening eagerly for that cry of the Holy Spirit in our hearts. Indeed, we ought to be sounding it aloud, for the Lord could come at any moment to take us to Himself. So let us watch and wait and look for Him in eager anticipation—and encourage others to do the same. It will have a purifying and motivating effect in our lives. TBC

 2013/6/27 11:17Profile
Sidewalk
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 Re: The simple words of Jesus

On a motorcycle forum I used to read, every now and then a new poster would ask a question about motor oil or tires. The groans could be heard from coast to coast.

One guy always blessed the thread with the little looped video of a guy beating a dead horse...

For me, the Matthew passages where Jesus describes the end times are sufficient, both terrifying and filled with hope. Consistent in His words are that the wicked will be judged and removed as the first step in closing the current human program. Bloody mess not withstanding.

And another note, which I would submit at no extra charge, is a look at those famous words of the Savior, "that where I am, ye might be also."

In my opinion, he is not talking real estate here but rather His position of being the full and complete image of the Father. His mission of bringing many sons to glory will be complete when the many sons stand before the Father with all the splendor of the Firstborn. It will be His immense pleasure to make that presentation, and our supreme joy to be in that company.

Do we care where this actually takes place?


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Tom Cameron

 2013/6/27 11:44Profile
rbanks
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 Re:

Thanks Narrowpath for your contribution!

I appreciate the articles brother and the great attitude! Your love for God and his people is clearly shown!

Blessings...from brother rbanks

 2013/6/27 12:13Profile
staff
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 Re:

Thanks Greg

 2013/6/27 13:49Profile
ginnyrose
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 Re: After the Tribulation: The Pre-Tribulation Rapture Fraud Exposed" Official M

Yes, one can discuss the pre-trib/post-trib rapture until the cows come home and still not arrive at an understanding in which all will agree. But there is one observation shared by Corrie ten Boom that I will never forget because what she saw back before WW2 is what is true today - or, at least it appears to be so.

Corrie ten Boom said how the Dutch were taught the pre-trib rapture, believing they will not suffer persecution, that Jesus will rapture the church and they will be spared. Well - surprise! Jesus did not bow to their wishes. She said when the Nazi's took over her country the [Christian] people were totally unprepared and they fell. (I do not know if she said this in her writings but do remember hearing her say this in a talk she gave in Memphis, TN many moons ago.)

We do not know when Jesus will return, but we do know we can rightly expect persecution and whether it will be the 'tribulation' - as spoken of in Revelation - or not will make no difference. Under persecution people will suffer drastically and many will die. But even without persecution people still die because we all the promise of dying someday and when that moment comes we need to be ready. To prepare for this event means one must live life to the full, being yoked up with Jesus each and every moment. If suffering comes He will be there with us.

God bless.


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Sandra Miller

 2013/6/27 14:03Profile
ccchhhrrriiisss
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 Re:

Hi sister Ginnyrose,

I think that the lesson learned from sister Corrie ten Boom's anecdote is not that the teaching itself is dangerous but that the failure by pastors to encourage endurance through persecution is dangerous.

After all, there is a difference between historic "persecution" and "tribulation" of saints and the period prophesied that is known as the "Great Tribulation" (or period of "Wrath").

Jesus told us that we would have persecution in this world. We should be prepared to endure through it by maintaining our faith in Christ Jesus. Any pastor, teacher or minister who fails to explain this is doing a great disservice.

Believers have suffered for Christ since the beginning. It is a privilege to do so. After all, we will all die at some point during this little period of time called "life." We aren't even promised "tomorrow." What an honor to spend that life -- and lose one's life -- for the One who gave us life!

Suffering, persecution and tribulation should be expected by believers. Believers have endured terrible persecution -- and many were never delivered from it (physically speaking). Hebrews chapter 11 details this.

However, the period referred to as the "Tribulation" isn't the same as historic suffering, persecution or tribulation. It is a period in which Satan acts because he knows that his time is short and, more importantly, God pours out His own wrath that has been "stored up."

The question is whether or not believers will suffer that wrath.

Like others, I am not totally convinced on either side of the debate. I do lean toward a gathering of the Bride before the Wrath of God is poured out. God has never poured out His wrath on those who belong to Him. Revelation 3 says that God would protects us FROM (rather than DURING) that hour of tribulation.

Still, there is a good argument that believers who came to Christ before that period would remain on Earth during that time. Even if this is true, I do believe that they would be spared from the wrath of God as it is poured out upon the entire earth.

Therefore, I think that it is good to understand all sides of the issue. I think that pastors should not declare an ultimate "truth" on such an issue but should make known possible alternative ideas about how it could happen. I would also expect that a good pastor should encourage the flock to be prepared to suffer for the cause of Christ no matter what.


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Christopher

 2013/6/27 16:25Profile
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 Re:

For me, the key is to be PREPARED.

A believer that is prepared for any type of tribulation and suffering can endure through persecution, sickness, hunger, thirst, prison and anything that they must face in this world. The preparation is to always seek God's face. The world can crumble around us, but if we and our house keeps our eyes on Jesus, what else matters?


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Christopher

 2013/6/27 16:29Profile









 Re:

Chris writes........

"For me, the key is to be PREPARED.

A believer that is prepared for any type of tribulation and suffering can endure through persecution, sickness, hunger, thirst, prison and anything that they must face in this world. The preparation is to always seek God's face. The world can crumble around us, but if we and our house keeps our eyes on Jesus, what else matters? "

I say a hearty amen to that................bro Frank

 2013/6/27 17:21









 Re:

Sigh! Only in America. The Ptrtrib rapture appears to be a western theology developed by Darby and Scoffield. My understanding is the early church never held to such a view.

Such a view is not taught to believers in N. Korea or Eritrea. Indeed the persecuted would say they are in tribulation.

Interesting American believers who hold to a Pretrib rapture deny the reality of a persecuted church.

Yep. Only on America.

Bearmaster.

 2013/6/27 17:55





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