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havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 786


 Problems in my Church

I need some wisdom.

I feel like the church that I attend has forgotten the Gospel. From studying the Word and reading up on Church history, especially recent history (past 200 or so years), I have come to the conclusion that we are really far off base from what Christianity is supposed to be like (I am speaking only concerning the church I attend). I believe that the version of the Gospel we are preaching is a "Jesus came to fix your life and make it good" gospel and not a "You have no life apart from the work of Christ" Gospel. Ex) My pastor often says that we go through trials with our marriages, finances, children, coworkers, etc; and Christ came to fix those things. And whenever he gives an invitation at the end, everyone closes there eyes and bows their heads, so as not to intimidate any unbelievers. I vary between wanting to be bold and proclaim the truth or saying to myself "I've got to let God handle this, because I cannot change the hearts of men." I think, "Who am I to go tell my pastor that I think he's wrong about this." And as a teacher at my church (which I don't even think I am qualified for that position), I teach those things that I read in scripture, but often get stonewalled with "That is your interpretation of what the Bible says." And when I quote scripture during times when I choose to stand my ground (during a business meeting or whatnot), no one even knows what I am talking about and they brush it off. I could pretend to quote scripture and make something up and only 3 or 4 people at best would know that I am not quoting the actual Word (that's a guess, I never actually did that). I don't think that I know everything, but there are some issues in my church that are crystal clear in scripture.

These aren't dissenters or wicked people that I am dealing with. These are my brothers and sisters. What do I do?

I am praying about it and I will continue to do so, even if that is all I can do for now. I believe that no change will ever come if I roll up in there and tell everyone off. I love these guys and I want the best for them, but I also want the gimmick-free truth. Any advice/correction/prayers will be greatly appreciated. Thank you all!

 2013/6/21 15:43Profile









 Re: Problems in my Church

Hello dear one,

I just happened to be writing to someone who told me, in effect that I wasn't a very wise Christian, so I looked up 'wisdom' in Proverbs 8 and told the person I was writing to that I was being wise according to the Bible.

Here is what I wrote:

"Wisdom has its 7 pillars, Proverbs 9 states. If wisdom is described in Proverbs 8 then I do consider myself wise by His standards. For my mouth has spoken truth and wickedness is an abomination to my lips...my speech is not perverse, I receive instruction and knowledge from the Word of God by His Holy Spirit. I am prudent, I fear the Lord (hate sin). I have understanding, counsel and strength by His Spirit. Riches and honor are with me because of Jesus Christ, my life, my all. The fruit of my life is known by my character, love, joy, peace meekness, long-suffering,goodness, self-control....I have forgiven my enemies and pursued peace with all men. I pray for my family, friends, neighbors, strangers and enemies. And I have kept up in repenting of sins."

Instead of feeling attacked, I chose to check my actions by the Word of God. It wasn't a personal interpretation. It is the Word of God.

I guess what I am saying to you, dear saint, is that we must stand firm in the Word, though the whole world around us (and sadly, even brothers and sisters in Christ wander far from God). Just keep praying for them and speaking the truth in love until they listen or kick you out. Jesus said this would happen!

a sister in Christ.


 2013/6/21 15:58
sermonindex
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Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 37314
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

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 Re:

Brother,

It sounds like you have the right spirit in this situation. I thought though maybe it might be encouraging for you to read this from the Principles book:

Principle 25 – Not Judging Others (pdf )
http://gospelfellowships.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/107-109.pdf

and

Principle 29 – Being Rich in Mercy (pdf )
http://gospelfellowships.files.wordpress.com/2013/06/123-124.pdf

May any correction or verses you share with brothers or sisters in your assembly be bathed in mercy, love and a lack of judgment but a love for the truth.


_________________
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2013/6/21 21:53Profile









 Re: Problems in my Church

There will be always problems in the church. Keep your focus on Jesus brother.

 2013/6/22 23:42
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 786


 Re:

Just for future reference, I am a Brother...lol

 2013/6/24 14:08Profile









 Re:

I am your sister,.... I do love your passion and love for his word. You seem to have a great love for God and his people. Bless you brother

 2013/6/24 14:11
havok20x
Member



Joined: 2008/9/14
Posts: 786


 Re:

Soul,

I ain't arguing. I often think that is exactly what I ought to do but then I think about how Paul never commanded Timothy or any other men in his Epistles to just accept that there will be problems. Yes, I need to keep my eyes on Jesus, but wouldn't it be just as wicked and rebellious for me to do nothing and mask it with supposedly Christ-like passivity? I tend to think so. On that same token, I don't think I am called to make a whip and turn over tables on something like this. But what I could use from everyone is some prayer for wisdom. I have been praying my guts out (as far as I know how, at least) about this. However, I would lay down everything I think about how I should act if Christ wants me to be passive.

 2013/6/24 14:17Profile









 Re:

1 Corinthians 4:21 What do ou prefer? Shall I come to you with a whip, or in love and with a gentle Spirit ? Encourage one another daily. Heb 3:13 But I do hear you too. You have a lot of wisdom. I do think your a very special brother that loves the Lord and tries to please Him.

 2013/6/24 17:32
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Consider

What you may be facing is a situation where you are looking at the church in a different angle than that of a Pastor. Teachers are really hard line on scriptural accuracy where as Pastors who are not bent toward teaching are more bent toward building and developing character, nothing instant. Even though we know Jesus can do things very instantly often times He does not. So your Pastors ministry will be geared way differently than yours. You may want to feed him good books to read along with some of the pdf files you can find here. The function of the church has from the beginning been to mature the converts of Christ while the individual believers were to take the good news out to the highways and by ways...that is if we are to use the bible as our source of instruction, the "rub" comes in when we start to see more of a social or humanistic gospel at work from the pulpit, than it can gravitate into a works religion...but from what you wrote it does not appear to be the case. Learn to be a patient farmer of truth, always offered in simplicity and never forced on anyone unless some sort of heresy is being embraced.

James says that we can not only ask for wisdom but expect it, and we know that wisdom is the proper application of knowledge. It take wisdom to make knowledge acceptable to the hearer, and often times you are best to just offer a bite here and a bite there instead of the entire meal at 1 sitting.....if you know what I mean, regardless, do not let this be something that is used to steal your peace which can harm the joy of the Lord in you. Lastly...remember that Salvation is the whole man which means all of our lives which includes our marriages, families jobs etc...The Lord is interested in all of it.


_________________
D.Miller

 2013/6/24 20:03Profile









 Re: Consider

Examine Yourselves...... to see whether you are in the faith;
test yourselves..... Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you unless of course, you fail the test? 2 Cor 13:5
It is really our job to examine others ? inspect, to determine their nature or condition. Is it our Job to take the speck out of our brothers eye. Can we Judge by mere appearance. Is it not the Holy Spirits job to convict us in regard to sin
and righteousness and judgement will he not guide us into all truth. Will he not expose sin in order to awaken our conscious of guilt and need for forgiveness. The Holy Spirit makes us aware of God's standard of righteousness in Christ he show us our sin and gives us power to overcome. Remember we will all stand before the judgement seat of God, everything will be uncover and give an account. I'm not saying there is times to speak up but it should be done with the Love of God being poured into our hearts by the Holy Spirit, spoken with Wisdom that comes from heaven pure, peace-loving considerate, submissive, full of mercy and good fruit impartial and sincere. James 3:17-18 Roman 5:5

 2013/6/25 11:29





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