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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : The False Teaching of Hyper Grace

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Quote:
Sidewalk (or anyone), would you show where this kind of oppressive preaching is found in scripture? Where in the bible does it say that one must spend a period in agonizing fear before being saved? I am highly disturbed by the, frankly, disgusting doctrine known as ‘preparationism’ where God does not save any one who comes to him, but must make them grovel for a period (which could be indefinite). Do we have a reluctant saviour? Butters




COLONIAL AMERICA’S REJECTION OF FREE GRACE THEOLOGY
L. E. BROWN Prescott, Arizona I.

INTRODUCTION

Many Free Grace adherents assume that grace theology, the de facto doctrine of the first century church, was lost until recently. Such is not the case. Michael Makidon has demonstrated, for example, that Free Grace views surfaced in Scotland in the 18th century Marrow Contro- versy.1 The “Marrow Men” were clear: faith is the sole condition of justification, and assurance is the essence of justifying faith.

Eighty years earlier peace was broken in the Massachusetts Bay Colony (MBC) over these doctrines. That upheaval, labeled the “Antinomian Controversy,” occupied the MBC for seventeen months from October 1636 to March 1638. The civil and ecclesiastical trials of Anne Hutchin- son (1591-1643), whose vocal opposition to the “covenant of works” gained unfavorable attention from the civil authorities, and served as a beard for theological adversaries John Cotton (1585-1652) and Thomas Shepard (1605-1649)…………………..

Link: http://goo.gl/FGwCP

If anyone is minded to look into the roots which the colonies have had with this subject this book is a good one. If it is read along with the superscripted notes at the foot of each page it will make much more sense.

For example:

Page 40 Superscript Body Text [3] with footnote "Anne encountered puritan doctrine at St. Botolph’s Church in Boston, England, under the ministry of John Cotton. Cotton’s determination to minimize the role of moral effort in the regenerative process conditioned her against pre- parationism and what today we would call “Lordship” theology. Upon her arrival at the MBC, shortly after Cotton’s, she began embellishing his views at Bible study classes in her home. Her influence in the community grew widely and rapidly, including prominent businessmen and even MBC’s young gover- nor, Henry Vane."

Page 41 Superscript Body Text [10] with foot notes "Ann Fairfax Withington and Jack Schwartz, “The Political Trial of Anne Hutchinson,” New England Quarterly 51:2 (June 1978), 226-240, cast as an undesirable those whose views were a political threat to the survival of the Commonwealth. Jon Meacham, American Gospel (New York: Random House, 2006), 49-52 and Larry Schweikart and Michael Allen, A Patriot’s History of the United States (New York: Sentinel, 2004), 30-34, both cast Hutchinson and her views as a threat to God’s continued blessings to a new society that had willingly entered into a covenant relationship with God. Her view that the believer is not obligated to observe the moral law of the covenant threatened the divine hand of protection upon the MBC at a time when external threats to their continued welfare were widespread. See also Marilyn J. Westerkamp, “Anne Hutchinson, Sectarian Mysticism, and the Puritan Order,” Church History 59:4 (December 1990), 482-496; Edmund S. Morgan, “The Case against Anne Hut- chinson,” The New England Quarterly 10:4 (December 1937), 635-649; Jeffrey M. Kahl, “The Antinomian Controversy and the Puritan Vision: A Historical Perspective on Christian Leadership,” Ashland Theological Journal 35 (2003), 55-72."

The Boston referred to in the above foot note [3] is this one.

http://www.parish-of-boston.org.uk

John Cotton referred to above is in this connection.

http://www.lincs-reformed-church.com/pilgrims.html

And finally the root of all of these concerns ultimately rested on one singe truth. That truth is eternal salvation. This is what concerned the men who framed the church in the USA and it is the concern of those same men who lived separatist lives in the Lincolnshire fens. woulds and marshes. See note [14] in the text.

Nothing has changed. Nothing is new and nothing will change or be new. It has all been said before.

 2013/6/23 6:27









 Re: What New Testament Grace Is and What New Testanent Grace is Nit.

What New Testament grace is.......

Titus 2:11-12
For the grace of God has appeared bringing salvation to all men, instructing us to deny all ungodliness and worldly desires and to live sensibly, righteously, and godly in this present age.

The grace of Jesus Christ saves us and teaches us how to live in a practical holy faith walk before Him.

Where is this grace of Jesus found........

Acts 20:32
Now I commend you to God, and the word of His grace, which is able to build you up, and give you the inheritance among all those who are sanctified.

The grace of Jesus Christ that saves and teaches is found in Gid's word, primarily the New Testament.

What New Testament grace is not.......

Romans 6:1-2
What shall we say then? Shall we continue to sin so that grace may abound? May it never be!

Grace is not a license to sin. Indeed we read in Jude 4 below.......

For certain persons persons have crept in unnoticed, those who were long beforehand marked out for this condemnation, ungodly persons who turn the grace of our God into licentiuisness and deny our only Master and Lord, Jesus Christ.

There above are the ones who would pervert true grace of God into a license to sin. This is where the error of so called hyper grace will lead. Michael Brown has out together a collection of horror stories of those who have suffered under this false teaching.

The true grace of Jesus Christ saves but it also sanctifies us and teaches us how to walk in practical holiness before Jesus. This walk being instructed by the Holy Spirit through the New Testament. This walk being done in the power of the Holy Spirit. Herein lies the true grace if God.

Bearmaster.

PS
All verses are from the NASB.





 2013/6/23 8:32
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

RE: ///Sidewalk (or anyone), would you show where this kind of oppressive preaching is found in scripture? Where in the bible does it say that one must spend a period in agonizing fear before being saved? I am highly disturbed by the, frankly, disgusting doctrine known as ‘preparationism’ where God does not save any one who comes to him, but must make them grovel for a period (which could be indefinite). Do we have a reluctant saviour?///

John ch 3:3... "Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God."

Their is always travail before a birth takes place.


John 6:65 "And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father."

Men must first be drawn or called by God before they can come to Jesus, This calling or being drawn is in the form of conviction often times instigated by circumstance.

When Men feel this load of conviction they are then prepared to recieve : Matthew ch 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest. 29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls. 30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.

For those whom have not yet experienced the heavy laden of conviction and the defeat of their own labor to appease their inward turmoil, John said of the such Luke ch 3:8 "Bring forth therefore fruits worthy of repentance,..."

For me it had to take the fear of having committed the unpardonable sin before I was so heavy laden to be able to recieve rest.

RE: ///Check out these scriptures (a small selection out of many): ///

lets look at some of them

RE: ///Luke 15:20
"But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him and kissed him."///

The heavey Laden of his circumstance first caused him to try to labor his way out of his fallen circumstance v 15-16, and when this proved defeat, he came "to himself"(was convicted)v 14-17, He understood the depth of his sin and then confessed from a contrite heart that "Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,"
19 And am no more worthy to be called thy son: make me as one of thy hired servants."

At this point the son was prepared to enter in with the father.

RE: ///Luke 18:13-14, Luke 23:42-43///
these also are examples of individuals that have come to the end of their rope, prepared to enter in.

RE: ///Do any of these not suggest that salvation/forgiveness is available instantly for anyone who sincerely comes to Jesus?///

Yes, but all of the examples given came sincerely because they had first been prepared. they would all agree that their experience was like : ////water at the end of four days in the desert, the morsel at the end of weeks of mental oppression under the weight of guilt, the sweet relief from being suspended over the flames of Hell.”////


Edit PS: As far as preaching goes, it depends on the audience some need nothing but grace preached to them, they all ready are well prepared.
others still need some schoolmaster given, before they are properly prepared for understanding grace.
Paul did not start the Book of Romans by introducing Grace, He spends the first 2 chapters proving to us that "There is none righteous, no, not one" This understanding is essential in preparing our hearts and minds to properly understand and recieve True Grace.












 2013/6/23 18:25Profile









 Re:

I believe that in this debate about faith and hyper faith there is such a mixing of justification( salvation) and sanctification and works that it ends in , for many folks, total confusion. One would have to have a basic knowledge of what justification is, what sanctification is, and in reference to works, what works is. Once these have been properly defined, much of the debate would become clearer.

Here is a portion of Scripture..........

Php 4:6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God.
Php 4:7 And the peace of God which passes all understanding shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
Php 4:8 Finally, my brothers, whatever things are true, whatever things are honest, whatever things are right, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report; if there is any virtue and if there is any praise, think on these things.
Php 4:9 Do those things which you have also learned and received and heard and seen in me. And the God of peace shall be with you.

Actually, one of my life Scriptures. So, we see two phrases here 1. Be anxious for nothing. 2. Do these things.

1. And if we do these things the Scriptures adds " And the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus."

2. " And the God of peace shall be with you."

Now, these are commands, to do these things, things which the Lord has made possible, things that were formerly impossible. Now let me ask you, does every single Christian that you know walk in a peace that surpasses all understanding? Do you? If not, why not? Can people attain such peace by simply knowing that it exists and remind themselves of it? Or, do we have to choose not to be anxious, trusting rather in Jesus our Saviour? And if we choose to trust, would theological men call that trust,that obedience a work and that be a derogatory term?

Obedience is a vital part of trust, and trust is the foundation of faith, and faith must be exercised. Let not the man who is anxious because of the sin of not trusting God, expect to walk in the peace that surpasses all understanding. This peace has to be reckoned, grasped, has to be possessed. God gave the children of Israel the promised land, but it still had to be taken. Did God fight all of thier battles? Yes. Did He lead and guide and direct? Yes, but it took obedience and a desire to possess all that God had given them, to actually walk in it. This brothers and sister, is just one example of the silliness of hyper grace, that one could walk in a supernatural peace, simply because it exists and is for them, without having to take what was given by obedience............bro Frank

 2013/6/23 19:48
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

And what is our labor?

Colossians 1:25-29 Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of God which is given to me for you, to fulfil the word of God; Even the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints: To whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory: Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus: Whereunto I also labour, striving according to his working, which worketh in me mightily.

By whose works in us, thereby we strive and labour?

Just agreeing with you Frank.

Saved by Grace, whether it be hyper or not, there is only one Grace, that is of God.

Ephesians 2:1-5 And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others. But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;)

Who is quickened and in whom are we quickened?

Ephesians 2:7-9 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.

This is what I would call hyper grace, It comes from God not man. The only Grace that is true is in you.

Ephesians 2:10-15 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace;

"One new man", Which is now an offspring of God, being born again, The Mystery, Christ in you the Hope of Glory.

The single most important act of God, by Grace, birthing Christ in the believer, by, for to make in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace; by Him in me, a new creature in Christ.

In Christ: Phillip


_________________
Phillip

 2013/6/23 21:21Profile
Koheleth
Member



Joined: 2005/11/10
Posts: 530
NC

 Re: The False Teaching of Hyper Grace

Quote:
Brothers and sisters I have no desire to start a theological debate. But when I see some in this forum exouse a view if hyper grace I must sound a warning and speak out.



Amen, brother. Just when a few years ago I thought this teaching could not become any more dominant in the church in the west, here it is, still growing and making stronger inroads with each passing year. Now it is more essential than ever to speak out about the faith once for all delivered to the saints and that no matter who preaches a different gospel, both the message they speak and they themselves are accursed.

One of the goals for this site is revival, but revival will never come to the compromised.

 2013/6/23 22:50Profile
Koheleth
Member



Joined: 2005/11/10
Posts: 530
NC

 Re:


Quote:
Where in the bible does it say that one must spend a period in agonizing fear before being saved? I am highly disturbed by the, frankly, disgusting doctrine known as ‘preparationism’ where God does not save any one who comes to him, but must make them grovel for a period (which could be indefinite). Do we have a reluctant saviour?



Dear brother or sister,

I don't think any of us are interested in a doctrine with labels like preparationism, but we do have to realize that God deals with people just how they need, and everyone is in different circumstances.

The prodigal son could have come home earlier, but he didn't. He needed the Lord to "prepare" him through the severe famine that came on that land.

And consider our brother Paul. The Lord told him to wait, and he was in the house for three days and three nights, until the man came to him and told him of Jesus and his forgiveness and he arose and was baptized.

It seems in Isaiah chapter 1 that the Lord wants the people to take a turn in their lives that will end up in bringing forth fruits that match repentance.

Just some thoughts from the word. I do not wish to tackle whether this "preparationism" is of the Lord or not, but I have seen the bad fruit of rushing people to a relationship with God instead of waiting for God to finish what he had started.

May it be true that none of us run ahead of God or lag behind! If we wait for him, he truly will make everything beautiful in its time.

 2013/6/23 22:58Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re: The False Teaching of Hyper Grace

Well said, Bear.

When I read of hyper-grace it looks to me like it is the old OSAS repackaged to make it more palatable for moderns.

The more I read about this-and-that false teachings promoted by so-and-so I am becoming convinced that most theological works written today is sorely contaminated with error and thereby dangerous. If a person were to limit his study to the WORD, allow it to minister to his mind and spirit it will go a long way in protecting oneself from doctrinal error. I suspect most people are more familiar with contemporary writers' philosophy/theories then they are with the WORD, OT and NT both.

My thoughts. Do not like to get into doctrinal discussion much but felt compelled to share this.


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2013/6/25 18:20Profile









 Re: The False Teaching of Hyper Grace

well, if Grace is hyper, then they should stop prescribing her Adderall...its bad medication, and will worsen her condition.

just as a post, Finney's asking if "God loves the unrepentant sinner"...is like throwing hamburger into a shark tank...or is it TULIPS into a Finney tank?

We need tears....not more regurgitated doctrinal cyber scrums....TEARS.....unabashed weeping and wailing....and NOT COOKED UP TEARS!!!

no! REAL TEARS!! this world is burning, and millions are going to hell....many of them your family members!! mine!!

we gotta quit this nonsense...religion.....time is short, time to get real!!!

 2013/6/25 18:50





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