| Re: My Questkon Again|
Respectfully I ask of those sisters who sear the head covering. Do you pray or prophesy publically in the church meetings?
| 2013/6/16 15:03|
| Re: |
"For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God"
should a man never where a Hat ?
| 2013/6/16 15:15||Profile|
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11
| Re: |
If God has given Head covering and submission to wife as a commandment to man then I will cover my head and submit to the decisions of my wife, no matter what the world follows. I will do it because I want to please God.
Head covering is a new covenant command unlike other external commands of old covenant. There are very few new covenant commands that are external. One such command is water baptism. Most of the Churches practices it as a sign for born again life. They do not discourage people saying born again is an internal thing and you do not need an external sign. But when it comes to head covering we see people discouraging others from following God's command.
I believe this is well said, there are few New Covenant practices. Baptism and the Lord's Supper are emphasized the most. And then Headcoverings is given one chapter.
Other ones such as Foot washing, Holy Kiss, Baptism for the dead are 1-2 verses are not really as important or they would be commanded or emphasised more. Also there is no specific spiritual allegory behind the practice as shown in scriptures for Foot Washing etc. But for headcovering as other have alluded to, submission and spiritual headship is a major spiritual teaching behind it.
Almost every denomination or group before the 1950's roughly had this practice of headcovering. It was a given.
I personally think it is healthy to teach it as in scriptures and allow the saints to follow the leading of the Spirit in its practice. I see no fruit in especially brothers speaking against it except that in some circles it is a religious rite and a source of pride and contention. This is in very few groups. I would say most evangelical sisters I have met who covered were doing it out of a love relationship to Jesus Christ. This is the case of my wife that with also the fear of the Lord she desires to follow everything the Lord has commanded and desires for her.
My brother or sister who advocate the head covering, if you cannot answer yes to the above questions then I gently say you are pursuing dead religion. For this is merely not submission. But the body praying and prophedying in the Holy Spirit.
Brother, I do not believe it is fair for you to say to sisters it is all dead religion. It is also about submission and in even some cases MODEST DRESS. In the past a covering for the head is considered a way of being modest also for woman. Such should not be looked down upon.
The underlying assumption is that those who cover heads will not speak in meetings or be "silent" as the Apostle Paul commanded sisters in one case in the Epistles. But rather woman who cover their head in the right way are recognizing God's economy, His ways in the Church and in the world. She is submitting to God's order and respecting the unseen world under God's and Christ's rulership. Such a sister can prophesy and speak God's word BOLDLY as under the leading of the Spirit and respecting the authority of men in the home and brothers in the Church. Ultimately the MAN Jesus Christ who is over the Church as Head.
They can prophesy and should but only under submission just as Christ did not share a word except from the Father and the Holy Spirit submitted to Christ to speak only of Him.
SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
| 2013/6/16 15:15||Profile|
| Re: |
What should a woman choose to do If her Husband request that she not ware a head dress ?
I know of personal accounts of which this is true, Should she or should she not continue to ware a head dress ?
| 2013/6/16 15:27||Profile|
| Re: The Head Covering Movement|
Then Andrew if you are going to agree with the OP you will have to agree that the issue is the praying and prophesying of the Christian sisters in Corinth.
If we are going to carry this command today to have women where a head covering in the church meeting then the women and the men will have to be allowed to pray and prophesy. And tbis may be in the language of tongues.
This is the issue I am raising and I do it respectfully. If one is going to insist that the head covering be binding as a New Covenant commmand. Then one is going to have to allow for the New Covenant gift of prophesy to be exercised.
You cannot separate the head covering issue from what Paul is addressing in the passage. Mainly the way in which men and women were to prophesy in the Corinthian church.
But if this command is to be binding today. Then one must allow for the gift of prophesy. Blaine
Not sure why you feel the need to draw me on that one Blaine but I am happy to be drawn. The gifts of the Holy Spirit are for all members from the least to the great and both male and female. Amen.
It was whilst observing an elderly sister in the 1980's that I both learned the real meaning of head covering as well as the reality of sisters ministering in the gifts of the Holy Spirit. When this sister prayed she always discreetly drew her shawl over her head. Then similarly when she prophesied and so on. It was a good living example. I have also see raven headed sisters with more hair than you could shake a stick at prophesying unto destruction with a spirit of malice and judgementalism. Both good lessons. One to glorifying the Lord the other to a grieving of the Spirit.
| 2013/6/16 15:29|
| Re: |
Andrew only responding to your post. This done respectfully. I appreciate your position that all of the spiritual gifts are for the believers today. Also about the the example of the elder sister who prophesied with her shawl on. At least she was consistent with the passage under discussion.
| 2013/6/16 15:39|
| Re: |
Can we consider the common headdress of what we see amoungst the sisters today, which usually only covers the Bun of hair, while leaving the rest of the head exposed, is this in line with a Head Covering of what 1 Corinthians 11 is speaking about ?
Is 1 Corinthians 11 mandating sisters to not be seen in public without a headdress ?
| 2013/6/16 15:42||Profile|
| Re: Vreg|
Brother in reading your post you are saying women can prophesy and pray in church provided they are covered.by an external cloth?
| 2013/6/16 15:53|
| Re: Greg|
Brother just to clarify. I have been respectful of the sisters who wear the head covering. I do not look down on them. I did say in a spirit of gentleness if prophesy or praying were not done while the sisters bead were covered, that they would be pursuing dead religion. Perhaps I should say if not done with a fight heart attitude then a sister is pursuing dead religion.
But brother might I suggest, respectfully, that it could be the other way around. I have heard that some of those sisters wbo wear the head covering look down on those who do not. One brother posted that was his experience when he went to a Zac Poohnen conference.
Indeed to insist on this practice could lead to a spiritual elitism. It should be a matter of spiritual liberty as to what God may tell each sister. Personally I do not hold to tbis practice to be binding on churches today.
As usual these are my thoughts.
| 2013/6/16 16:58|
| Re: |
Pride is the operation of all men and women naturally speaking. Although some folks do seem to have an ability not to be overtly proud. This is true for believers and unbelievers. If we spent some time in a culture where women automatically wear head coverings the same reality can be found. In the Gujarati community where I once lived I was always blessed by the attitude of many women. I witnessed mothers with their families and saw their willingness to be a good example for their daughters and at the same time to honour their husbands. On the other hand some of the matrons of households behaved like devils and oppressed everyone under them. The same is true for every other culture I feel certain. Yet none of this can take away from or compare with the pleasantness and delight of a godly sister who covers her head and does so as a sign of obedience in essence unto the Lord. Even an unbelieving women is more pleasing when she has no anger towards other men, but desires to please those she respects.
It is a natural phenomena and this is why I believe Paul expressed this issue in terms of a woman's hair. If cutting the hair off is not shameful to a woman, no amount of head covering will contribute to a good attitude. Things have become confused in many places and rebellion of both men and women has made for an impossible confusion. Yet even naturally speaking the hair has its own effect on those who see it. My daughter as a young girl had a full head of golden red hair. When we walked down the public streets the Gujarat's would often stop us and just look at her hair with wonder. How many mothers simply wanted to touch it and how many old men were openly blessed by the sight of it, is lost to count. Yet in that place there came a time when little girls were required to cover their beauty for the sake of modesty.
How much more then ought we who comprehend eternal life, to do that which is pleasing to Christ. If we can comprehend how to please other men, how much more ought we to comprehend how to please the Lord. Sadly this subject as with so many is cast onto the ground not only because of those sisters who reject it out of hand, but because of those men who fail to comprehend that nature itself teaches in visibility what God intends in visibility. It is not about the body but the one who created the body. The difficulty is intensified when we do that which we ought to do simply for the sake of appearance. Then it is further intensified when pastors and elders commend those sisters who do cover their heads in the local churches, failing to see which sisters are doing it for approval and in that motive some of them do take a dim view of those sisters who will not do it.
It seems to me to be ironic that Zac Poonen is mentioned in two threads. One in this thread because sisters in his fellowships allegedly shunned other sisters on this issue of head covering and in another thread because he was willing and able to clean up the excrement of a child with his own hands. Do we really want to comprehend reality or are we simply proud ourselves? What father would not want to preserve his daughter for her husband alone? What husband would not honour the father who laboured well in it? I believe there are those who for a similar motive encourage sisters to cover their heads in the churches, especially when they pray or prophecy in order to please our heavily Father. There are also sisters who obey their consciences and in doing so honour the Father in heaven. It would be a brave man who discouraged a godly attitude.
| 2013/6/16 17:46|