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Discussion Forum : Articles and Sermons : All Christians Believe "Works" are Essential for Salvation by David Servant

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proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 

murrcolr,

very much wisdom in your last post.

 2013/6/17 21:44Profile
allaboard
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Joined: 2011/5/28
Posts: 100


 Re:

one

 2013/6/17 22:02Profile
rbanks
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Joined: 2008/6/19
Posts: 1257


 Re:

...not of works lest any man should boast.

 2013/6/17 22:29Profile
ZekeO
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Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re:

Friends we are justified by faith, lets hold onto this doctrine. The reformers risked their lives for this truth, don't let this mixture that this guy proposes become excepted as normal its a mixture of law and grace and is witchcraft (Gal 3:1)

This foundation truth needs to be so embedded in our hearts, without which we can drift into performance based religion which is cold, dead and heartless.


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2013/6/18 2:51Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
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 Re:

///The reformers risked their lives for this truth, don't let this mixture that this guy proposes become excepted as normal its a mixture of law and grace and is witchcraft (Gal 3:1)///

In my study of the reformers, I have been very disturbed by how they treated and persectued those whom differed with them on theology,
and even how they treated each other over the smallest of differences on doctrine, such as luther and zwingly disagreement over the eucharist.

One thing that all the Reformers had in common, was that they all strongly condemed those whom believed in believers baptism and that where against infant baptism.

Zwingly had Felix Manz put to death by drowning over the issue


 2013/6/18 8:53Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Friends we are justified by faith, lets hold onto this doctrine. The reformers risked their lives for this truth, don't let this mixture that this guy proposes become excepted as normal its a mixture of law and grace and is witchcraft (Gal 3:1)

This foundation truth needs to be so embedded in our hearts, without which we can drift into performance based religion which is cold, dead and heartless. Zeko



I have been thinking about this post of yours brother, especially the comment about witchcraft. It would take a deliberate effort to produce such an effect of making a person abandon a beginning in something to thereafter press on by a completely different means.

The word in Galatians 3:1 is baskaino (βασκαίνω) and primarily means to exercise an influence on others by defaming one thing and then flattering another, it is connected with the idea of presentational teaching and a convincing effort. I suppose in modern parlance we would simply say "putting on a good show". The word may be used literally here in Galatians 3:1 and does not mean a significant effort on anyones part in the sense of a concertion (adjusting something) but rather a complete abandonment of the original thing itself. In this case it is grace which is abandoned in favour of keeping the Law. Although Paul does express in this verse that the consequence is so grave, he feels he must ask "who has baskiano (bewitched) you". Whether that means that one particular person did make such a effort is doubtful. It was more than likely a number of the Jewish sect who made for the return to the Law.

In the case of Mr Servant I feel he is seeking to address a serious problem in the churches in the US and attributes this problem to a teaching which is essentially modelled on an understanding that the gospel itself has been falsely presented in the first instance to many people, leading to many respondents becoming false christians rather than true christians. The second part of the model is addressed to those who regardless of their true spiritual condition (lost or found) are in any case deluded by a false belief in eternal salvation [security]. I have no doubt that there are numerous other threads which are informing Mr Servants beliefs, but these are the principle ones. It is summed up by the idea of "cheap grace". As Mr Servant never did believe in eternal salvation [security], it is not difficult to comprehend how difficult it is going to be to produce a convincing and "gracious" teaching which actually does not lead to the legalism which historically informs it. In short true holiness may end up looking like cruel legalism despite a desire to avoid it.

 2013/6/18 10:06
makrothumia
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Joined: 2005/5/19
Posts: 613
Texas

 Re:

///The reformers risked their lives for this truth, don't let this mixture that this guy proposes become excepted as normal its a mixture of law and grace and is witchcraft (Gal 3:1)///

It is sad to read such strong words. Such statements could very easily have been heard during the days of the "inquisition" or in the trials of Puritan "Salem". Men were put to death just because of such opinions. Witches were burned at the stake in the name of protecting the people and preserving the "truth".

To label David Servant's expression as witchcraft seems every bit the extreme the poster took aim at. How sad!

makrothumia


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Alan and Dina Martin

 2013/6/18 10:09Profile
ZekeO
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Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re:

You see this is what I find so revealing about the discussions about the North American Church. Scripture is interpreted in the light of experience and not what the word of God says.

Friends, we are justified by faith, and to suggest anything else is blasphemy to the work of Jesus Christ on the cross.

Mr Servants insistence that all Christians believe works are essential for salvation is unscriptural no matter how sincere he may be in addressing problems in the Church.

Paul treated this issue of mixture so radically because it strikes at the very heart of the Christian faith and what Jesus did.


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2013/6/18 11:17Profile









 Re:

James 2:24
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.

Any comments on the above verses. May want to read the verses 2:18-26 for the whole context.

By the way I believe Luther called James "a right strawey epistle". Had he had his way. James would have been thrown out of the New Testament.

Bearmaster.

 2013/6/18 12:00
ZekeO
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Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re:

To take one or two versus that prove a point whilst disregarding whole books which deal with the matters of salvation is bad bible and leads to erroneous doctrines as this.


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2013/6/18 12:19Profile





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