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proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936
| | what are your thoughts on this translation, found in the message | | Romans 15:7-13
......! May the God of (green) hope fill you up with joy, fill you up with peace, so that your believing lives, filled with the life-giving energy of the Holy Spirit, will brim over with hope!
What is your thought or insight as why Peterson added the word green ?
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 2013/6/5 8:25 | Profile |
enid
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Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2680
Nottingham, England
| | Re: what are your thoughts on this translation, found in the message | |
The message isn't a translation, it's a paraphrase.
That being said, who knows why the word green was added, except the author? And what does it mean?
It's not a book I use or ever have, or intend to look at.
But its there.
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| 2013/6/5 8:44 | Profile |
ginnyrose
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Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi
| | Re: what are your thoughts on this translation, found in the message | | papa,
I googled 'God of green' and what I found is disturbing. It appears to me it is a case of someone taking away and adding onto, something the scriptures prohibits. This same writer also eliminates key references to homosexuality. Since many have made "The Message" their Bible it should come as no surprise how it fed apostasy.
Why did the writer insert the word green? I do not know except it seems to me someone was listening to someone else other then the Holy Spirit.
Papa, what do you think?
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Sandra Miller
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| 2013/6/5 9:50 | Profile |
Martyr
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Joined: 2012/6/10
Posts: 225
United States
| | Re: what are your thoughts on this translation, found in the message | | He adds it because in literature green represents hope. (See the green light at the end of Daisy Buchanan's dock in the Great Gatsby and many many other books). I know, it still makes no sense why he would add it but I bet you that's why.
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Tyler
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| 2013/6/5 10:16 | Profile |
| | Re: Green | | Quote:
He adds it because in literature green represents hope. (See the green light at the end of Daisy Buchanan's dock in the Great Gatsby and many many other books). I know, it still makes no sense why he would add it but I bet you that's why. Martyr
I have no idea why Eugene H. Peterson uses the word "green" in the way he has done. His fields of academic competence are Philosophy, Theology and Semitic Languages. Clearly therefore he must have had a clear idea in his own mind why he chose to use that term. No doubt it would have been in keeping with the intention of the transliteration itself which was to make it accessible, in his mind at least.
Quote:
""While I was teaching a class on Galatians, I began to realize that the adults in my class weren't feeling the vitality and directness that I sensed as I read and studied the New Testament in its original Greek. Writing straight from the original text, I began to attempt to bring into English the rhythms and idioms of the original language. I knew that the early readers of the New Testament were captured and engaged by these writings and I wanted my congregation to be impacted in the same way. I hoped to bring the New Testament to life for two different types of people: those who hadn't read the Bible because it seemed too distant and irrelevant and those who had read the Bible so much that it had become 'old hat.'"" Eugene H Peterson.
This quotation from Peterson demonstrates that he was capable of transliterating from Greek into English. Clearly the form of English which would then be used would itself be determined by the intention of the effort. In this case the effort was to "liven" up the original or existing English translations. The problem comes at which point transliteration and paraphrase cross paths. Paraphrasing does not of itself require any knowledge of Greek. It simply requires a sound understanding of any language text and then an overarching explanation given in the form of "new" words of parses and tenses (idioms) into the same language. So English KJV to The Message. It may include many "original" English texts, but the outcome is determined by the intention of the effort.
As for the actual meaning of the use of the word green. It is unjustified in a translatorial sense because their is no correlation between the original Greek or the word itself. It would appear to me that its usage is as you have stated. It is an intentional expression of hope. The wisdom of doing it of course is another matter.
http://www.olivetreeviews.org/wordpress/category/jans-articles/
http://www.crossroad.to/Bible_studies/Message.html |
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| 2013/6/5 11:11 | |
sermonindex
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Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 39795
Canada
Online! | | Re: | |
The Message Bible Inserts Earth Reverence, God of Green Hope
http://solasisters.blogspot.com/2011/05/message-bible-inserts-earth-reverence.html
Homosexuality will be perfectly acceptable, even sacred. And nature, the earth itself, will be worshiped. We have already addressed Eugene Petersons removal of homosexuality and other sins in 1 Corinthians 6:9-11, but he also inserts the phrase use and abuse the earth, something the Lord did not place there at all.
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This follows the new doctrines of the Kingdom (false emphasis) of Christians today that God will preserve the earth. He will not. He will destroy it with fire. Our place is in heaven from whence we look for a Saviour the Lord Jesus Christ.
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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon
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| 2013/6/5 11:20 | Profile |
enid
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Joined: 2006/5/22
Posts: 2680
Nottingham, England
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Ginnyrose,
You voiced my thoughts on someone adding and taking away from Scripture.
What kind of godly fear does someone have who can do that?
Changing God's word to suit our own palates, will not diminish its fulfilment one iota.
'Heaven and earth will pass away, but My word will by no means pass away', Matthew 24:35.
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| 2013/6/5 11:24 | Profile |
| | Re: Enid : | | Precisely my concern for the NIV2012. My observations are this translation is changing the meaning of God's word. The changes are ever subtle and not blatantly obvious. But let us remember a little leaven leavens the whole loaf.
Bearmaster. |
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| 2013/6/5 12:53 | |
RobertW
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Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
St. Joseph, Missouri
| | Re: | | I concur with armkelly:
Quote:
As for the actual meaning of the use of the word green. It is unjustified in a translatorial sense because their is no correlation between the original Greek or the word itself. It would appear to me that its usage is as you have stated. It is an intentional expression of hope. The wisdom of doing it of course is another matter.
It is evident that the translator has exercised liberty in the use of the word 'green' for elpis (ἐλπίς is translated 53 times in the AV as hope and 1 time as faith). this, to me, is always dangerous and misleading. Bible words have histories. When words are translated other than they ought to be the reader loses the important links with other contexts that comprise God's full revelation of the meaning of the term.
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Robert Wurtz II
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| 2013/6/5 13:09 | Profile |
ADisciple
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Joined: 2007/2/3
Posts: 835
Alberta, Canada
| | Re: | | I'm extremely wary of productions like The Message, but I think maybe I understand why he added "green" before "hope" here. Green is the scriptural colour of life. If something is alive, vital, it is green.
So he likely means here that this hope is alive. It is a "living hope," as Paul calls it in another place.
However, this thought is obviously his own addition; it is not there in the Greek.
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Allan Halton
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| 2013/6/5 13:55 | Profile |
