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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Kingdom Authority or Crazy Buffoonery?

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Eli_Barnabas
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah

 Re: Your onto us!

Has anyone anything else to say about the Kingdom Authority teaching? Anyone to rise to it's defense? (Which is what I'm hoping because I want to hear it's Scriptural sense)


_________________
Eli Brayley

 2005/3/14 14:46Profile









 Re: Glory to Glory

Quote:
At least you are aware of it. Besides you should now by know that I like poking a bit of fun at you, you are a very serious fellow. Anyway staying godly without causing your brother to stumble is an area I need work on.



I think we are both poking fun at each other... and neither is getting it! LOL

I will admit tho, sometimes you can get so used to people challenging you on every little thing that you tend to respond in kind...

but believe it or not, I was not being all that serious with you.

As for me being a serious "fellow" ... all I can say is that everyone who knows me (not in cyberspace) would bust a gut laughing if they read that!

After all ... my nickname is Krispy Kritter. Not exactly reverent or serious.

Krispy

 2005/3/14 15:47
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

John Bevere (who is acctully on this site somewhere) has a book out called Under Cover. Ive read it. He talkes alot about being under people of authority. I dont remember him every saying that you have to be under authority. What he bring out in his book is the blessings and privilidges of being under a pastor and being obedient to what he says, even though you might not agree (not a biblical disagreement but a method or way of doing something disagreement). My church teaches that you have to be under someone at all times. This is a staple to the g-12 movement. (thats awhole other thread that is out there.. though I'm not 100% sure what i think of it) My youth pastor told me once that you have to be under someone elses authority no matter how far you move up (pastor or whatever). I disagree, I belive you should be mentored by someone but in the end your only authority is the Word of God. I'm not saying you can rebel against all authority just because they are not the final authority. Paul says in (i belive it is) Hebrews to be obedient to those who are over you.

I belive there is a difference, which some dont know, between a leader (who is over you in a since) and a dictator. I leader leads in example and by encouragement. A dictator reigns and rules over someone. See the difference? I think you do. :-)


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Josh Parsley

 2005/3/14 15:59Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

Quote:

There were only ever 12 Apostles.



Not so. Check out an article at www.christiansteps.com/doctrine/apostles.html for a list of about 20 or so.


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Jimmy H

 2005/3/14 18:18Profile
KingJimmy
Member



Joined: 2003/5/8
Posts: 4419
Charlotte, NC

 Re:

John Bevere's "Under Cover" book, while it has many positive features to it, such as talking about the nature of submission being an attitude of the heart and the like. He shows how you can submit to those in authority even if you do not obey them (such as if somebody ordered you to disobey God).

However, there are also some negative features to the book, which I think probably is linked to the doctrine in question. Bevere is operating under the premise of a hierarchical form of church gov't, with Sr. Pastors, State overseers and the like... which simply has no biblical basis to it whatsoever. Thus, he (like many do) believes that if you are going to do anything within the local context, you need a "covering" over you to be properly in the will of God. Thus, if God tells you to start a ministry within the Church, let's say, a prayer meeting, but the Sr. Pastors says no... then you must obey the Sr. Pastor in this instance, because everything that happens within the Church is "his" ministry.

My problem with this entire concept of ministry (one of which I've had much personal experience, both good and bad with), is that it usurps the headship of Jesus Christ within the Church. Christ has appointed in the Church each to their own ministry (1 Cor 12). He doesn't use the Sr. Pastor as a sort of funnel or mediator by which one receives the "covering" to operate in such a meeting.

The fact of the matter is, because we are all united with Christ, who is the head of the Church, we have authority to act within whatever ministry Christ appoints us to. For example, if Christ calls you to preach on the streets, you don't need your pastors permission or approval to do such. If a pastor thinks he has authority to tell you to stop such a thing, he is in gross error, and overstepping the bounds of his own authority. Sadly though, Bevere would say that you must obey your pastor in this regard because you are essentially on his turf and under his covering.

Of course, we are to obey those over us in the Lord. If one of my pastors tells me to do something, I will do it so long as it doesn't cause me to step out of the will of God. But I don't have to seek his blessing or approval to do a particular ministry. I only need the blessing that comes from the headship of Christ... of which no pastor or pope can claim as office.


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Jimmy H

 2005/3/14 18:35Profile
PreachParsly
Member



Joined: 2005/1/14
Posts: 2164
Arkansas

 Re:

I agree Jimmy.


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Josh Parsley

 2005/3/14 19:02Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Not so. Check out an article at www.christiansteps.com/doctrine/apostles.html for a list of about 20 or so.



I looked at this... I think they're making a stretch or two. Also, I would need to examine which translation (i.e. which school of manuscripts they are using) before I can come to any conclusion.

This will make a good study tho. Hey, I'm still learning. I'm not going to say you're wrong... I'll wait till I've studied it out... lol

Krispy

 2005/3/15 8:40
Eli_Barnabas
Member



Joined: 2005/2/16
Posts: 621
Cache Valley, Utah

 Re:

We are most certainly suppose to submit to those in authority over us, but the teaching I am questioning stresses a "spiritual" covering...for example:

So and so told me a story about a guy who decided to pray downtown in his city and ended up being demonically attacked because he left his 'spiritual boundaries'. The man was only responsible for his house territory and if he wanted to pray downtown without getting ambushed in the spirit he would have to receive permission from the spiritual leader of the city.

This is crockery in the highest degree if you ask me. You ask, "Who is your covering?" [b]The blood of Jesus is my covering![/b]

In Christ,
-Eli


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Eli Brayley

 2005/3/15 14:52Profile
ZekeO
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 A side dish

For me I have understood it to be that someone in some for of authourity knows what I am doing, not in a Lording it over you style, just so someone knows. There is power in bringing things into the light. In many ways it may break the lone ranger in some, in others it is just a means of keeping those who are entrusted in looking after you the heads-up.

Allot of this has the underlying base that those that are leading you are men you respect and that they are shepherds of Gods flock not hirelings.


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2005/3/15 15:00Profile
PTywama3
Member



Joined: 2005/3/1
Posts: 156
Tacoma, WA

 Re: A side dish

Submitting to authority can also take on the boundaries of council. If I plan on doing some zealous thing that I am not prepared for, and I introduce it to someone more versed than I, they may just tell me not to proceed.

Sometimes its really annoying, because I don't find out why, but it forces me to do a check on myself. --A slate of grey to be added to the mix.


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David Reynolds

 2005/3/15 16:59Profile





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