| Concern Over J. Osteen Ministry|
This has been very heavy on my heart the past few weeks: the ministry of Joel Osteen. First let me say that i do not want to bash him or start a whole thread that promotes bashing a man. But I am very concerned, very concerned with the rising popularity of this man and his ministry.
His book "Your Best Life Now" is a top seller and can be found at my grocery store as well as any bookstore. I bought the book to do my own research. Let me say that I would be the first one to WANT all those things to be true. Who wouldn't?! But, alas, I know that is not the nature of the true God and the true gospel.
Yesterday we heard on the radio that his speaking engagement in Chicago is compltely sold out and there are now scalpers selling tickets for $150 a piece. People want to go hear thim that bad.
My heart is so grieved. Thousands of people are falling for a gospel that is about "SELF-FULLFILLMENT" , not "SELF-DENIAL". My husband and I listened to a Todd Friel recording this weekend while he was disecting a sermon of Osteen's. [url=http://www.ttwministries.com/audio.php?topicId=4]TTW Ministries/ False teaching[/url] I am not in agreement with the way Friel brings his message across many times (brash and insensative) but listening to Osteens words and knowing how untrue and SELF CENTERED they are, makes me feel very sad and sick inside. The fact is that he may be right on some points, but His remedy or answer to the problem is not "God centered", only man -centered.
It really is a mix was positive thinking, motivational speaking, self-esteem boosting mixed with a few scriptures and the mention of God. There is no metion of sin, repentance, Jesus (maybe I missed that one in there somewhere), sanctification, etc...
and here are thousands of people flocking to his church, to his conferences and buying his books who believe that this is Christianity. They are being totally decieved. O, I can only pray that a few will come to know Him anyway, that the Lord will snatch some peope out that false gospel and show them the way anyway. I know He can and He will.
I wish there was something that could be done. I am praying that if the Lord has a part for me to play in this, to reveal the truth where ever He may have me, then so be it. I don't want to go around bashing people. But i do want to make sure that people know the difference between what is true and what is false.
5 or 6 years ago, I would have fallen right into this teaching. I didn't realize at that time that the gospel was one of self-denial- not self-fullfillment. I was self centered and self focused back then. -Not to mention I was as lukewarm as can be and now know that i was not even a christian - a follower of Christ.
"Lord, please give me the wisdom I need and the forbearance I need to do Your will. To expose that which is not of you, but show people the real gospel. To have the courage to stand against a feel- good gospel, but the love and patience it takes to love people through to the real gospel. Let me show them YOU, so that they won't want a false gospel. O, the people are so blinded and it is just terrible. I pray that people who may earnestly be seeking you, will find You."
If I am wrong about this in any way, I pray that the Lord will show me. I am willing to be shown my heart's deceivement if I am wrong. But then why am I so grieved?
Is anyone else concerned about this? What will you do? What will I do? Praying and seeking the Lord.......
[i]Then Jesus said to His disciples, "If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow Me. For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will find it.[/i] Mat. 16:24-25
| 2005/3/14 9:10||Profile|
| Re: Concern Over J. Osteen Ministry|
What a way to start the day! I opened my email today and had this message from Zac Poonen: "The Example of the Apostle Paul". So my first thing to do was to send it out on my mailing list :) Already God is showing me how I can help.
THE EXAMPLE OF APOSTLE PAUL
We have a very great responsibility to demonstrate to
the next generation what Christlikeness really means.
People who look at us the way we live, preach and
serve - should be able to see in us what it means to be
a true servant of the Lord, in the style of the apostles
and prophets of old, and not in the style of 20th-century
Whether we realise it or not, were leaving behind us
an image, wherever we go an image thats going to
remain in peoples minds long after weve gone away
and long after they have forgotten the messages that
we preached to them.
When Paul called the elders of the church in Ephesus
to bid farewell to them, notice what he told them in Acts
20:17-35. He reminded them that he had been with
them for three years (verse 31) and that he had
preached to them night and day. Three years is more
than 1000 days. And so if Paul actually preached twice
every day, as it seems to imply here, he must have
preached over 2000 sermons there.
Ephesus was the place where they had once had a
great revival and where Christians had burnt their old
books of magic and witchcraft costing nearly half a
million rupees. It was also the place where
handkerchiefs that had touched Pauls body were used
to heal the sick and deliver the demon-possessed.
God did some amazing miracles through Paul in
Ephesus on a scale that hadnt been seen anywhere
else (See Acts 19:11,12,19).
At the end of all this, what does Paul remind the elders
of? Does he remind them of his sermons or the
miracles? No. [b]He tells them to remember the humble
way he had lived among them, from the first day they
had seen him [/b](v.19). Even if they forgot his sermons,
they could never forget how he lived among them. His
life had made a permanent impact on them. They
could never forget his compassion and his simplicity.
Theyd remember that he had worked hard with his
own hands as a tentmaker to support himself and his
coworkers so that he would not be a burden to them
and also to be an example to other Christian workers
(v.34,35). They would never forget that during all those
three years, Paul never desired money, or gifts, or even
a new set of clothes, from any of them (verse 33)!
Paul also reminded them how he had proclaimed the
WHOLE counsel of God to them uncompromisingly
(Acts 20:27). [b]He hadnt been a man-pleaser, seeking
popularity for himself. He had preached repentance
and every other unpopular subject, if it was profitable
for his hearers, even if some got offended thereby[/b] (Acts
| 2005/3/14 9:57||Profile|
| Re: Concern Over J. Osteen Ministry|
I dont know enough about him to really comment intelligently about his ministry... I have heard similar concerns before.
Anytime a minister receives wide acceptance and praise by the world... red flags automatically go up for me. That does [b]not[/b] necessarily mean that minister is wrong... I just proceed with caution.
| 2005/3/14 9:58|
| Re: Concern Over J. Osteen Ministry|
Well, I use to be a member of the Pastor Police and God told me one day I will never forget it was like a slap in the back of the head that I am letting my Pastor Police job interfere with his will for my life and you need to move on and let me do the Pastor Policing You're in My Hands. What your pastor does isn't of any importance to you. For what he does is between him and Me, whether he is obedient or whether he isn't? He is now accountable to Me because I gave him My Word, and if he closes his eyes and ears then I will deal with it. It's not your problem. It's Mine and I don't have problems. I take care of everything in due time. This is Jehovah, the Creator of Universe, of all that is, and of all that is going to be.and I have and it was like two bags of concrete of removed from my shoulders. Yes you can go through scripture finding scriptures that say we are responsible to bring this to light and if you feel good within by doing that "go for it" I hated it and God delivered me from that and I have moved on to a closer relationship with the Lord. For me personally it effected me so bad that by seeing Pastors out there I did not approve of being able to preach the gospel I starting doubting God that he would even allow this man or woman to minister, I said God are you asleep up there or what, and it was killing my relationship with him. It was a tough bridge to cross "really tough" but I crossed over to freedom from the bondage of the Pastor Police job and now I concern myself with what should come first, my personal relationship with the Lord and I love it! I do not know what Gods will for you is and if you should be concerning yourself with Pastor Joel that is strictly between you and the Lord if your heart tells yes go for it! if your concern is heavy on your heart and you can handle that extra weight again "go for it", I was held in that bondage for 10 wasted years of my life because I did not even make one arrest, you know why God said look all that grief you have put yourself through and those people are still out there Ministering and he also said I can use anyone to bring in lost souls and none ever will be perfect. If you were asking opinions well mine would be if you can carry the extra weight and it does not create some sort of bondage within and you are able to move along in a joy full walk I would say carry on solder .Tony Evans had a great sermon Sunday on how the word is a great roadmap for life but he also said that your number one priority should be listening to what God is telling you personally and I totally agree with him.
| 2005/3/14 10:09||Profile|
Hi sister Chanin,
As of late Holy Spirit has really been impressing on me, via Revelation chapters 2 and 3, Who's concern pastors and churches really are ... Christ Himself ... And that if there's any correction or chastisement of God's anointed, or removal of candlesticks (churches), He's the only one able, and worthy to do so ...
i know in my own case Holy Spirit has used me in three distict "words" over the past 20 years to my own pastor (but not the congregation), but that's been the extent of it ... If in fact those "words" were from the Lord, and if in fact there is to be any correction of my pastor (and subsequently my congregation) for not heeding such a "word" then only Christ Himself is capable, and worthy to bring about a change ... All i know is that the only thing i can do is pray, "Lord, if i am the one that needs fixing, fix me ... And Lord if in fact it is my pastor, and my congregation, and on a broader scale Your entire Body (of churches) that needs fixing, then please Jesus fix us" ...
i like brother Joel, and listen to him sometimes, but their buying the Astro Dome did trouble me, but if it is in fact God's will that it prosper it will, if not He'll remove it in His own way and good time ... i like brother Jakes, and listen to him sometimes, but Mega Fests and cruises that include comedians who ply their trade also on Club Comic View trouble me, but if it is in fact God's will that it prosper it will, if not He'll remove it in His own way and good time ... But in the meanwhile i'm praying for such brethren because they may have gotten "perspiration confused with inspiration", and there but for the grace of God (God's ability to my spiritual sight) might go i ... So in the meanwhile i just stick to my simpler staple of Charles Stanley and A.R. Bernard ...
| 2005/3/14 11:31||Profile|
Maybe, Bill, you have a different calling than that of a watchman. Ever consider that? If every soldier was a assigned to be a guard on the watchtower, nothing else would ever get done. So, do what you're called to do, and stop judging those who are called to something a little different.
I am one of the elders of a network of house churches, and part of our responsibility is to keep watch over the "flock". That means that at times we have to look into different doctrines and teachers and offer insight into them.
I [b]will[/b] give warning of false teachers. I [b]will[/b] do all I can to prevent souls from following down the wrong road.
And please notice that I have given [b]no[/b] warning at all of Joel Osteen. I said I dont know enough about him to comment. If that changes, I will comment.
| 2005/3/14 11:34|
| Re: false teaching|
Just so that people don't think that i am out to trash a "man" or go around saying "don't listen to this man"- that is not my intent and I don't believe the Lord would have me do that.
I think recieving that article by Zac Poonen and then being able to send it out is a perfect example of the way the Lord wants me to warn people and give them the TRUTH so they may see for themselves that which is false.
I would rather give people the truth many times over than to go out directly and defame someone's name. It is better to offer the alternative to the false.
I would just like more opportunities to keep representing the truth so that this truth may come against all that is false. Some may say that Osteen's gospel is ok, or good, but I believe the Lord does not want us to settle for what seems good, but His best.
One of the problems with modern christianity is that people still want to hang onto their rights, their wants and their desires. This is not the gospel that jesus preached. And I will do everything that I can (only as the Lord leads) to see that I do my part in representing the real gospel that Jesus preached.
May we preach and represent the truth so much that people cannot help but see what is false and what is true.
may we surrender all to God, so that He may be seen in us. It's all about HIM , not US.
What concerns me as well, is that when we make our faith about US, then who is on the throne? SELF. We are on the throne. God is not in full charge, we are. When there is someone else on the throne, that is anti-christ sitting on the throne.
This brings me to a conclusion that even as the bible talks about the anti-christ sitting on the throne, I have to wonder in this day and age if it isn't US- SELF. We have made ourselves our own God's because we refuse to get off the throne and let God rule however He sees fit.
Again, all I can say is that it's not about us. What we want, what we desire, what we have the right to. O, God show us your majesty. Show us your amazing power and hugeness, so that we should know that we are nothing. We deserve nothing , but yet, You are still so good to us.
My greivance does not necessarily go out toward mr. Osteen or any other man- the Lord will have to be the judge- it is the message, the deception, saying there is peace when there is none. Saying that God wants you to have what you dream of having.
I have felt the exact same way with the Jabez book, the P.D.L. and all the J. Eldridge books came out. One after the other, I see this teaching that is so man-centered.
If you compare a book like Don't Waste Your Life by John Piper to a book like Wild at Heart or Your best Life Now- you can see that one is completely God -centered and intent on God getting His glory- while the others are man-centered and are intent on man getting what He wants and needs.
In Him, Chanin
(edit): "Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God. " -- refering to my comment above about "self" being on the throne in the temple- for we are His temple.
This is just more confirmation to me about the apostacy of the church.
Interesting to note: i don't know if anyone knows much about satanism or their church beliefs, but the focus of their church is that they believe that they are their own god. They put self on the throne. How many "christians" are allowing this? hmmmmmm.
| 2005/3/14 12:29||Profile|
KrispyKrittr, I re-read my post two times and I really can't see where I looked to be judging anyone I was telling of my own personal experience, if I seemed to be doing any judging I did not intend for my post to appear that way I am sorry. And your right my calling is "NOT" to be a watchman "thank you Lord" I have a hard enough time being my own watchman. :-)
| 2005/3/14 15:08||Profile|
KrispyKrittr, I re-read my post two times and I really can't see where I looked to be judging anyone I was telling of my own personal experience, if I seemed to be doing any judging I did not intend for my post to appear that way I am sorry. And your right my calling is "NOT" to be a watchman "thank you Lord" I have a hard enough time being my own watchman.
I probably misunderstood ya... I apologize if I did. Forgive me?
By the way, I wasnt coming down on you. It's hard to sometimes get the spirit in which something is written on here.
| 2005/3/14 15:43|
| Re: tHE SPIRITUAL MAN JUDGES ALL THINGS|
I have to admit since I speak in small churches and large and house churches also that its sometimes a difficult task to instruct thoughs to whom the Lord has placed in ones care. Hebrews says we'll give account of thier souls on the day of judgement.It's sometimes better to sound a loud caution and later come to the conclusion that you're wrong then to allow poison in and have to damage control later.We as christians are instructed to rightly divide the Word of truth and to judge all things , even to the point of testing and trying the spirit.That doesn't make us christian police, that just makes us doers of the Word of God, and that's safe.So Krispy----keep on sounding, but don't neglect love in your sounding(btw--- I didn't sense anything wrong in your posts at all, so I just bring a general exhortation to love).As to brother O. I don't hear the cross.
| 2005/3/14 21:52||Profile|