QUOTE: "Despite this, it is clear that Roberts did have sone contact with Azusa, and could you give some referrences please." I'm not sure I got that right Dear Sister. Did you mean to say that "its not clear Evan Roberts did have some contact with Azusa" and therefore wants some referrences?

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Emeka Joe Uzosike

Brother

You said earlier that Evan Roberts was having communications with Azusa and I just asked for references for this as I have not seen it.

You're very particular about referrences Dear Sister Brenda. This is to my utmost delight I tell you.

When I say that Evan Roberts was having communications with Azusa, I meant he was communicating with Bartlemann. For d purposes of clarity, I'd quote what I said earlier:

"Its on record that about a year before Revival broke out in California, Brother Bartlemann began and maintained a consistent correspondence with Evan Roberts. Brother Bartlemann would later became one of the leaders in the Azusa street move. At the request of Frank Bartlemann, Evan Roberts listed for him some principles for securing Revival and bade him to pursue it. I've had reasons to treasure some of Evan Roberts's letters to Bartlemann most dearly. The one Evan told Bartlemann "what can I ever say to encourage you in this terrible fight" makes me very emotional.

Evan Roberts also promised to mobilise prayers for a God-sent Revival in California... My next question is, when the leaders in Azusa found Dr Parham's spirit too harsh to be accomodated in d Azusa work and had to show him the door, why on earth did ***Bro Bartlemann*** not suggest Evan Roberts's name to Bro Seymour and d others?""


I can't give you particular references as to d pages where Mr Roberts letters to Bro Bartlemann are but you'd find them in Frank Bartlemann's book with d title "How pentecost came to California." It was once available as a free downloadable pdf file at www.ccel.org but not anymore. Its been more than a year d book's pdf file in my phone corrupted but not before I'd managed to memorise one of his letters to Bartlemann and I'd be glad to post it if my memory would serve me right.

Frank Bartlemann: "For several days I had a feeling that another letter was coming from Evan Roberts, and it finally came . "

Loughor Wales Nov 14 1905
My dear comrade, what can I ever say that will encourage you in this terrible fight. I find it a mosr awful one. The devils kingdom is being besiegedon every side.Oh d millions of prayers (not simply the for of prayer) but the soul finding its way to the White Throne. May God bless you with a mighty downpour. In Wales it seems like God rests upon d churches awaiting the opening of the hearts of d people. We had a mighty downpouring of the Spirit last Saturday. This was preceded by correcting the peoples views towards worship. Therefore looking to God and forgetting d devil, we prayed and the Spirit descended. I PRAY GOD to hear your prayer, to keep your faith strong and to SAVE CALIFORNIA. I remain your brother in the fight Evan Roberts.

Bartlemann comtinued: "this is d letter I received from Evan Roberts and I feel their prayers had much to do with our victory in California."

You'd find out more on their correspondence when you get d book. You people in the West are privileged to find such classic books in your local stores whereas they're hardly found here.

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Emeka Joe Uzosike

The Pentecostals arose from the Holiness tradition, with its Wesleyan doctrine of sanctification. Wales was Calvinist Country in those days - even the Wesleyans called themselves "Calvinistic Methodists."

More importantly, Pentecostalism was universally rejected by the professional clergy, in Wales and everywhere else. G. Campbell Morgan called it "the last vomit of Satan." R.A. Torrey said, "it was emphatically not of God, and founded by a Sodomite. W.B. Godbey called it "sensual and devilish."

I just threw this in to make sure we don't run out of things to fight about.

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Wayne Kraus

QUOTE: "I just threw this in to make sure we don't run out of things to fight about."

Come on Brother Wayneman! I know you didn't really mean that. I know you wouldn't want to hurt d feelings of this Brother at d heart of Tropical Africa.

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Emeka Joe Uzosike

I especially wouldn't want to hurt the feelings of a brother named Endless Joe. Cool name.

If there was a point to my post, it was that these two revivals were divided by doctrinal distinctives. But more importantly, the professional clergy do not like people who claim direct experiences with God, apart from the mediations of the church. The early Pentecostals liked to say, "Attend any church, or none." This did not set well with the authorities.

Frank Bartleman cared nothing for doctrinal orthodoxy. He joined the Oneness Pentecostals and was rebaptized in the name of "Jesus Only." He then accepted Durham's "Finished work of Calvary" doctrine. He embraced both of these movements because he saw increased spiritual vitality among people who accepted these new teachings. He later rejected them both because they were causing division in the Body. He was very pragmatic, and changed doctrines like he changed clothes. At least he was free from the superstition that Deity is preoccupied with theology, and that God will torment people in eternity for having unorthodox doctrinal opinions.

Bartleman believed that the Lord was returning the church step-by-step to a restoration of apostolic Christianity. "Like the waves of sea at floe tide, with each wave reaching higher up the sands - and each new wave being resisted by the receding wave that came before it. Every revival movement has failed God in the end, but never without leaving behind a foundation on which the next revival company can build."

I'd say more, but I've gotta go to work.

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Wayne Kraus

Hahaha!!!
Thanks Dear Brother!
Thanks for the company we share.

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Emeka Joe Uzosike

Frank Bartleman did indeed have correspondence
with Evan Roberts . Bartleman was an intercessor
and was in great travail for revival. When he got
the news of revival breaking out in Wales, he
wrote to Evan Roberts and received a reply.

Evan Roberts not coming to Azusa had nothing
to do with the manifestations of the Spirit
that were taking place at Azusa. For Evan Roberts
departed from the Welsh Revival at the suggestion
of Jessie Penn Lewis. Most of the writings
say that Evan had a emotional breakdown.
Evan lived in the Penn Lewis home for a number
of years and was greatly criticized in Wales
for leaving the Revival. Evan believed that
God was calling him to a prayer ministry.
Therefore it is unlikely that Evan would have
gone to Azusa even if he was asked. Evan
later rejected much of what Jessie Penn Lewis
wrote concerning the Welsh Revival. At the
time of the Welsh Revival Jessie Penn Lewis
was at odds with much of the leadership in
Wales.

As with most revivals, what started out as
true moves of God did not have a good ending
for a number of reasons including the counterfeit
work of the enemy and poor leadership. God
needs leaders that will allow the Holy Spirit
To be in control, but will also deal with excesses.

I am writing this on my cell phone, so please
excuse the way that the sentences are structured.

Mike

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Mike

Thank you brother, that was very helpful. I found the letter here http://frankbartleman-story.blogspot.co.uk/

It seems that they met when Frank Bartleman came to Wales during the revival.

It is not unknown for a frienship to develop between brothers of different theologies.

///The Pentecostals arose from the Holiness tradition, with its Wesleyan doctrine of sanctification. Wales was Calvinist Country in those days - even the Wesleyans called themselves "Calvinistic Methodists."///

The only agreement is the `second blessing` and differs on the most significant doctrine in holiness that is that a Christian is to be without sin.

The disagreement was not because of Calvinism. Holiness doctrine is anti-Calvinism.