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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Is there a sin nature?

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Heydave
Member



Joined: 2008/4/12
Posts: 1306
Hampshire, UK

 Re:

It is clear that the bible does not use the term 'sin nature' and as has been pointed out the use of this term by the NIV has greatly distorted the truth. The word is 'flesh' not sinful nature.
What the bible does say is that there is 'an old man' (Adamic nature if you will)) and there is the 'flesh'.

The bible teaches us that the 'old man' was crucified with Christ (Romans 6:6) As a result we are no longer under the power of Sin in the flesh and can choose not to sin.

So those who are truly regenerated (born again) do not have a sinful nature as the old Adamamic nature has been crucified with Christ and we have the new nature of Christ(Galatians 2:20). We do have the flesh which is subject to sin, but we can mortify this flesh because of the new nature. The flesh is NOT the sinful nature as mis-translated by the NIV.

I would disagree with some here who think that no one has a sin nature. All who are unregenerate are still in Adam and not in Christ. As such they have a rebellious (sinful) nature. Otherwise what is the old man that is crucified with Christ? Also see Ephesians 2:3 that says we WERE by 'nature' children of wrath.
1 Corinthians 15:22 says that in Adam all die, even so all in Christ shall be made alive.
Jesus Christ is called the 'last' Adam, but the second 'man' (1 Corinthians 15:45-47). As the last Adam He 'became sin' and put an end to Adam on the cross, hence we can say we our old man was crucified with Him. As the second man He is the first of a new race of man (not descended from Adam), hence were are born again from above and we have a new nature.

To answer Pilgrims's question about Adam and Eve sinning without a sin nature. Absolutely they did. However once they did fall, then sin entered the human race and as 1 Corinthians 15 says 'all died'. Died spiritually not just physically. Being by nature a descendant of Adam and inheriting sin does not excuse anyone sinning.

These are my thoughts.


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Dave

 2013/4/27 17:15Profile
murrcolr
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Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1839
Scotland, UK

 Re:

Woe is me! for I am undone; because I am a man.


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Colin Murray

 2013/4/27 18:50Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

of unclean lips

 2013/4/27 18:53Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

Man is not guilty for being man, he is guilty because he holds the truth.

 2013/4/27 18:56Profile
romanchog
Member



Joined: 2011/10/27
Posts: 338


 Re: Is there a sin nature?

I have not formed an opinion on this subject, but there is this scripture in Ephesians 2:3: "among whom also we all once conducted ourselves in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the others" (NKJV)

By saying that we are by nature children of wrath, does that mean we have a sin nature?


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Natalie

 2013/4/27 19:41Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

Hi Heydave,

I am glad that we can agree that the NIV 'has greatly distorted the truth'.

Heydave wrote /////I would disagree with some here who think that no one has a sin nature. All who are unregenerate are still in Adam and not in Christ. As such they have a rebellious (sinful) nature. Otherwise what is the old man that is crucified with Christ?/////

Ephesians 4 tells us what the old man is: v 22 That ye put off concerning the ((former conversation)) the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts;

The old man is the "former conversation" not some mystical sin that is part of the substance of the soul passed on thru conception.

Heydave wrote ///Ephesians 2:3 that says we WERE by 'nature' children of wrath.///

Eph 2:3 is also clearly speaking of the natural course of man the "former conversation" : "Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind."

further more Ephesians clearly tells us :
" Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience."

Paul is saying that men are going to try to decieve us with vain words, telling us that it is not the (things) (the disobedience) that we do, but something else that cause us to be children of wrath

Heydave wrote /////1 Corinthians 15:22 says that in Adam all die, even so all in Christ shall be made alive./////

All of Adams offspring Die! agreed

Heydave wrote ////Jesus Christ is called the 'last' Adam, but the second 'man' (1 Corinthians 15:45-47). As the last Adam He 'became sin' and put an end to Adam on the cross, hence we can say we our old man was crucified with Him. As the second man He is the first of a new race of man (not descended from Adam), hence were are born again from above and we have a new nature.////

1 Corinthians 15:45-47 is not at all speaking of a sinful nature.

Heydave is 1 Corinthians 15:45-47 speaking of a post fall or prefall Adam ??

Heydave wrote /// 1 Corinthians 15 says 'all died'. Died spiritually not just physically.///

Paul says "I was alive without the law once" (born innocent) : but when the commandment came,(age of accountability) sin revived,(revived from one generation to the next, natural course of man ever since Adam.) and I died. (when guilt entered Pauls soul, he calls it death)





























 2013/4/27 20:30Profile
InLove
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Joined: 2010/11/17
Posts: 53


 Re:

Thank you all for your wonderful posts! I'm sorry it has took me so long to respond. I have been super busy. I'm glad there are like minds with me. I am in a holiness school currently and I just don't see their doctrine, but they have a love for God. I just don't see the scriptures the way they explain them. Thank you so much for your answers!

In Love,
Joe

 2013/4/27 23:00Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Amen Joe.

"Love for God is not in question", but it is important to know that sin no longer has to reign in our body and we no longer have to obey it in the lusts of the flesh.

Rom 6:12 Let not sin therefore reign in your mortal body, that ye should obey it in the lusts thereof.

Knowing that being "In Christ" (if you remain in Christ) sets us free from sin we no longer are a slave to sin and do not have to yield to it, anymore.

Rom 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Wrong teaching has led many to believe that they are just freed from the guilt of sin, but not the power of sin.

God is Recovering the Truth of Godliness in the Believer, Today
http://jesusourallinall.blogspot.com/2012/09/god-is-recovering-truth-of-godliness-in.html

Pilgrim

 2013/4/27 23:40Profile
Christinyou
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Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Romans 7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death?

Colossians 1:22 In the body of his flesh through death, to present you holy and unblameable and unreproveable in his sight:

Romans 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Romans 7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

Who sold us into slavery? Who is the ruler of this flesh of death I live in.

Romans 7:24-25 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.

Sin nature; Yes. Set free and delivered from this nature and death; Praise God, "I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord I am free from sin and death but still live in the flesh with all the old man body pulls which only the Christ by the Holy Spirit in me can make me free indeed. Some of the old man body pulls get less and less and some go away completely, but some hang on for dear life and like a roaring lion on the prowl seeking whom he may devour and yet "1 John 1:7-10 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2013/4/28 1:16Profile
Koheleth
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Joined: 2005/11/10
Posts: 530
NC

 Re:

Hi murrcolr,

Thanks for the reply. I am not sure if you communicated what you hoped to, so please let me share with you how your post reads to someone besides yourself.

First, you have a "reproof". Then you let us know that we need God to "open our eyes" because this teaching is "all through the Bible", yet you didn't give a single verse that supports sin nature in your post. You did say it was "hidden in plain sight". Just a comment on this thought. In the first century, there was a group that associated with Christianity that claimed there was a specially revealed "hidden knowledge" about God. These were the Gnostics ("those who know"). So, potentially good points in your post, but when you cite Paul, please be sure to bring a clear teaching like he did. Paul didn't preach a cryptic message and tell his followers to fast and pray so that they could understand it. Although that is what you are telling us, Christianity doesn't work that way. I agree that fasting is good, but Jesus indicated it was more for spiritual strength than to have revelations.

 2013/4/28 4:35Profile





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