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InTheLight
Member



Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2734
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re:

It is what is in the heart that makes a person spiritual, not what is in the head.

In Christ,

Ron


_________________
Ron Halverson

 2005/3/15 9:11Profile









 Re:

Quote:
I have huge issues with the R C doctrines but am shamed by how little I give having recieved so much. Maybe we all need to display the attributes of Christ more so that the ones who serve in "ignorance" begin to take as much notice of what we do as what we say.



Very nicely put... Your post was excellent. We do need to show those who are not yet believers a "more excellent way"... but without compromise. We need to be cautious not to let our human logic supercede Biblical truth, but that has alway got to be done in love.

I am not condemning Mother Theresa... thats not my place. But I can determine by her own words and beliefs where she stood with God. And it's heart breaking.

Krispy

 2005/3/15 9:24









 Re:

Quote:
It is what is in the heart that makes a person spiritual, not what is in the head.



Yes... and unfortunately, what was in her heart did not lead her to salvation. She believed in her heart a false gospel. The truth did not set her free because she did not know the truth. Her own words proove this.

I know many "spiritual" people who do not know Christ.

Krispy

 2005/3/15 9:25









 Re:

Ghandi was a good person too... on the same level as Mother Theresa... did he go to heaven too even if he did not accept the truth of the Bible?

Krispy

 2005/3/15 9:42
MarkDaniel
Member



Joined: 2005/2/20
Posts: 43
Midwest, USA

 Re:

Thanks Krispy for your insights here. I feel like you are a rudder on a ship that's trying to keep the ship on its course towards the cross and blood of Jesus alone. Thanks for blessing me.

MD


_________________
Mark Daniel

 2005/3/15 9:46Profile









 Re:

Quote:
Thanks Krispy for your insights here. I feel like you are a rudder on a ship that's trying to keep the ship on its course towards the cross and blood of Jesus alone. Thanks for blessing me.



Thanx for your kind words... I only hope I can live up to that. I dont always.

Krispy

 2005/3/15 10:28
Compton
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 2732


 Re: Correction Appreciated

Krispy wrote,

Quote:
Dont like it? Dont get mad at me... it's not my gospel... it's Jesus's.



Brother, let's not let this become the tone of our conversation. (Although I love your passion!)

Besides, if we were to judge fruit alone...her life, and love, resembled Jesus' gospel far more then what is taught in our pulpit's. (I'm thinking the beatitudes, the sermon on the mount...) Perhaps this is a point of weakness in our American gospel...it's doctrines have only enough power to change individuals at the epicenter of personal salvation, with little redemption left for the society around us. But we cannot judge fruit alone. Along with her doctrines towards the poor, we must judge her salvation doctrine.

You quoted Mother Theresa,
Quote:
"All is God--Buddists, Hindus, Christians, etc., all have access to the same God."



Well, if she said this then she does have a big problem. I thank you for bringing this to light, and I stand corrected on her gospel. Jesus certainly disagrees with her and Paul would have never preached such a heretical belief. Bless you Krispy.

This does leave me having to figure out a glaring inconsistency in our own gospel. Indeed, that she may not have been regenerated only increases our own embarrasment.

Quote:
The Catholic Church teaches salvation thru works...



No doubt there are horrible perversions within the Catholic Church. Perhaps the worst is replacing the sufficient atonement of Christ with the need for an ongoing priestcraft "atonement". Repentence is reduced to mere sacramental ritual.

Brothers, in all honesty, I see a similar dynamic in us, though less theatrical and scripted. Even Ravenhill pointed out that we have "romanized" the altar. Yet when we talk about the Catholic Church we become advocates for "Solas Gratia, and Solas Fide".

I never imagined that I might one day be defending a catholic but only on the same basis I defend arminians. Here is a quote from Finney, one of our evangelical heroes, that I would classify as a works gospel as well. I use him because this sounds alot like the gospel I hear frm many people here at SI. (From Finneys' systematic theologies)

Quote:
The substitutional atonement "assumes that the atonement was a literal payment of a debt, which we have seen does not consist with the nature of the atonement ... It is true, that the atonement, of itself, does not secure the salvation of any one" (p.217).

]"The doctrine of imputed righteousness, or that Christ’s obedience to the law was accounted as our obedience, is founded on a most false and nonsensical assumption." After all, Christ’s righteousness "could do no more than justify himself. It can never be imputed to us ... it was naturally impossible, then, for him to obey in our behalf " This "representing of the atonement as the ground of the sinner’s justification has been a sad occasion of stumbling to many" (pp.320-2).



You see, it is easy to agree with each other that the gospel is salvation through grace alone. What we can't seem to agree on is what "grace" means.

You have given me something to really consider about Mother Theresa. She seemed as an angel indeed, but even if an angel were to preach another gospel then the one Paul preached, then we could faithfully anathamize.

Now that we've agreed that salvation is by faith alone in Christ, my question now is...any other angels in these parts? Please help this poor calvinist understand some seeming inconsistencies. My interest is not to catapult at each other boulders of unlived theology....(zzzzzz). I'm interested in our own honest, "it's time to meet Jesus" confidence in the finished work of Christ.

I treasure the faithfulness and love for the gospel that you demonstrate Krispy...

MC


_________________
Mike Compton

 2005/3/15 13:50Profile









 Re:

Compton, my tone was not one of anger. I apologize if my words came across this way.

Your last post is right on the money. I agree with you! Can you believe it? LOL

Most of what passes for Sunday morning services came from the Catholic Church... which means it came from Roman (pagan) culture. A really good book on this is called "Pagan Christianity" by Frank Viola. He documents where just about everything comes from... alters, pulpits, robes, etc. Very fascinating read, and something I highly recommend.

As part of the house church movement... we've abandoned most of it. Some things do work, and just because it came in after the 1st century does not make something evil. But we hold to many many traditions, thinking they are biblical... and they are not.

Krispy

 2005/3/15 15:03
RobertW
Member



Joined: 2004/2/12
Posts: 4636
Independence, Missouri

 Re:

Quote:
Most of what passes for Sunday morning services came from the Catholic Church... which means it came from Roman (pagan) culture. A really good book on this is called "Pagan Christianity" by Frank Viola. He documents where just about everything comes from... alters, pulpits, robes, etc. Very fascinating read, and something I highly recommend.



Are you suggesting that altars and pulpits are pagan?


_________________
Robert Wurtz II

 2005/3/15 15:23Profile
dohzman
Member



Joined: 2004/10/13
Posts: 2132


 Re: JUST A WORD OF CAUTION

It has been said that WISDOM is the right application of knowledge. As we approach the subjects in these forms and in some instances make mention of names (I'm speaking to myself here), let us not neglect the wisdom that God freely offers.The Order of the book of James starts with wisdom and moves to a crown of life promised to thoughs who Love God and then moves into some really practical stuff. Love is something we do but in the public areana it must be seasoned with wisdom. Especially in these forms where so much of what we say can be misunderstood.So lets be careful to think through what it is exactly we are trying to say and have respect for each other. My prayers are my Love expressed for you all. Bro. Daryl


_________________
D.Miller

 2005/3/15 16:29Profile





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