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carters
Member



Joined: 2011/5/24
Posts: 138
Australia

 Pregnancy...having young children in the end days...

Hi there,
After reading Matthew 24:19 and seeing what is happening in the world today, I was wondering whether it is not the best thing to be pregnant or have lots of children in these end days?

The natural world is starting the birth pains as per scripture.

Is it a wise thing to bring a child into this world at this stage?

The increase is autism among children is extremely worrying - it is not just the natural world that is falling apart but mankind's bodies are also becoming more affected too. There are so many other developmental issues affecting children.

I have friends who have children with developmental issues and it becomes such a huge thing in their lives, the main focus and dictates everything in what and how they live having to care for child/ren that have such special needs.

If the risk of having a child with developmental issues, which seem to becoming worse as time goes on, not be the wisest choice to make in the end times?

If the risks become worse as time goes on, would it be best to not have children and focus on spreading the gospel as single or married with no children, or few children?

I just wondered what the biblical answer is.

Thank you!




_________________
Mrs Carter

 2013/3/24 22:50Profile









 Re: Pregnancy...having young children in the end days...

HI Carters,

I have a child with Down Syndrome, well less a child now, more of a young man, he will be 20 in a few short years. To the man and woman who is focused on Jesus, a child such as mine only intensifies the focus. My life is not defined by my special needs child, it is defined by Jesus and on the narrow walk home. When our eyes are fixed on Him then every obstacle becomes an opportunity to be a blessing. When our eyes are fixed on ourselves, then every obstacle becomes an opportunity to deviate from the the narrow path. In the clearest words the Lord every spoke to me, He said , three days after my son was born " I have given you a perfect gift from the treasures of heaven." Brother, we never let the world define our circumstances. All is God. I see God everywhere and in everything. The steps of a righteous man are ordered of God and in this lies great peace. Every married couple should live in peace and joy, no matter the circumstances. Let not the world nor the state of the world dictate how we live our lives. And let not circumstances ever give us an excuse not to follow the Lord in all that we do. Be blessed bro Carters, I do agree with you that the season seems to have begun, but have faith and joy in the Lord and have children, unless he specifically speaks to you not to....................bro Frank

 2013/3/25 0:17
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7464
Mississippi

 Re: Pregnancy...having young children in the end days...

Mrs. Carter,

You want a biblical answer to your question about the wisdom of birthing children in these troublesome times.

After God made man he commanded them to be fruitful and multiply and this command has never been withdrawn. The only stipulation is that the child's parents be married to each other! (OT and NT law).

After reading your post last night, I asked my husband what he thought. He observed that people have been having babies ever since the creation and there were a lot of troublesome times in all these years, but God's children still multiplied by birthing children. He went on to say that ungodly people still keep having babies, so why should Christians stop?

As a mom who birthed five and now have eleven grands, I share your concern. Actually, I am glad I am too old to have children anymore! My attitude towards birthing is totally different from a young woman's but this is part of the ageing process. I enjoy my post-menopausal era! lol

Anyhow...you expressed concern about birth defects in children which is a legitimate concern. I will add to it diabetes plus other ills that bedevil children. You know what? When I was a child growing up we rarely heard of diabetes! Back then - I was born in 1947 - I knew of only two who had it! Now it is everywhere! Why is this so? I suggest you do a lot of studying to see what some folks will say is causing it and then take measures to do what you can to prevent it. The more I read up on it the more I think one would do well to live in a remote place, growing your own food using heirloom seeds, raising your own chickens and animals. When sick, pray - asking for divine intervention and keeping visits to physicians to a minimum. As much as possible abstain from vaccinations.

I am concluding that many sicknesses we see today are man inflicted because of our culture. Since I believe this, I would urge one to study this carefully and order your life accordingly. One must never forget there is a health industry that works to separate you from your money and it is imperative to know which is legitimate and what is mere commercial.

As I consider the health issue - and it is a serious one - I would think the spiritual one should be of greater concern. How can one shield his children from evil influences? is the driving concern of many godly parents. This I think should be the greater and more serious issue. The physical, while important, is temporal; the spiritual is eternal.

In closing I suggest you make this a matter of serious prayer but do not allow fear to impact your decision.

God bless.

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2013/3/25 10:30Profile
SkepticGuy
Member



Joined: 2012/8/8
Posts: 259


 Re:

the greater questions is: who said we are living in the last days??

we must be careful not to let the headlines dictate our escatology. every single generation of believers since the time of christ have been convinced that THEY are living in the end of days. especially the believers of the disciple's generation! it would have blown their minds to consider that we'd all still be here 2000 years later.

if u listen to the christian music from the late 60's early 70's u would have thought jesus would return next week. but the 70's faded into the 80's, then the 90's and then the next century. the hippie jesus people grew up and put on suits and are now retiring and moving to florida, and still jesus has not returned.

jesus could tarry another 2000 years if thats god's sovereign plan.

so be fruitful and multiply.

 2013/3/25 11:50Profile









 Re: Scriptural Instruction and Testimony

Sister Carter,

What a blessing to receive such loving concern and godly counsel from brothers and sisters in the Lord as you have received here on sermonindex forum. Praise the Lord. I will add just a note to the good edification that was already given. We have been declaring the return of the Lord for many years, yet we have three children and five grandchildren!

These two scriptures come to mind immediately as I consider your question. First, Philippians 4:4-9

“Rejoice in the Lord always. Again I will say, rejoice! Let your gentleness be known to all men. The Lord is at hand. Be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving, let your requests be made known to God; and the peace of God, which surpasses all understanding, will guard your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus. Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things. The things which you learned and received and heard and saw in me, these do, and the God of peace will be with you.” NKJV

Notice the apostle Paul clearly suspected that he was living during the time of the return of the Lord when he wrote, "the Lord is at hand." Yet he instructs to "be anxious for nothing, but in everything by prayer and supplication, with thanksgiving let your requests be made know to God."

Second, from James 1:2-8

"My brethren, count it all joy when you fall into various trials, knowing that the testing of your faith produces patience. But let patience have its perfect work, that you may be perfect and complete, lacking nothing. If any of you lacks wisdom, let him ask of God, who gives to all liberally and without reproach, and it will be given to him. But let him ask in faith, with no doubting, for he who doubts is like a wave of the sea driven and tossed by the wind. For let not that man suppose that he will receive anything from the Lord; he is a double-minded man, unstable in all his ways."

James, the brother of our Lord, was compelled to write that even in the midst of "various trials," that we should ask God for wisdom... and that we should fully expect to receive His wisdom in a matter if we fully believe.

In each case we find sufficient cause for anxiety to be stirred within believers, but in each case we find the instruction to pray and seek God's guidance. I would say that we should seek God's guidance / wisdom in all things, even in childbearing and especially in the last hours of this age. Yet procreation is a central part of God's purpose in marriage (Gen.1), in much the same way for example that bearing fruit is a central part of God's purpose in our relationship to Him through Jesus Christ. (Jn. 15) Thus, to a great degree those commands should be considered defaults for us.

At the same time, when we consider ways of bearing spiritual fruit unto the Lord, we should first and foremost consider our specific gift/s and call. To each one is given "a measure of Christ gift" (Eph. 4:7). So that whereas some may "win souls," very directly through preaching on the streets, others may serve in very important support roles. We see such a lead / support ministry relationship illustrated from Timothy to Paul for example. Each one is equally important in fulfilling the command (I Cor. 3:6).

IS CHILDBEARING A "LAW" COMMANDMENT? NO! IS IT AN ACT OF OBEDIENCE TO GOD'S COMMAND? YES!
As that example relates to childbearing, if we say that it is always and without exception a default command to bear children as the law to live "righteous" for example, some may interpret that to mean that they must bear as many and as often as possible. However, that was NOT the command God gave in Genesis, but only to "be fruitful and multiply, and fill (or replenish) the earth."

I knew of one family well that tried to do that believing that it was a law commandment, and after nine children straight, the wife and mother almost died. There family suffers in many ways to this very day, most of it due to a misunderstanding of that and other similar things put forth in the scripture. On the other hand, we are close to another family that has had seven children over about a twenty year period and the wife and mother (still in her mid forties) is very well and strong, able to support her husband in his gift and call as the head of the household; but they do not plan to have more children because they sensed the Holy Spirit telling them that was all for them. My wife and I believed the Holy Spirit led us to have three, and so we did. He has honored that in a great way because it was in obedience to Him.

REAL LIFE ILLUSTRATION:
Finally, I have been preaching the soon return of the Lord for many years, and the calamities that surround it. My children have heard that since they were born, and they are thankful. They all inquired of their mother and me, as to whether they should attend college, marry, have children and so-forth, seeing as the Lord is coming soon and the world will be filled with unprecedented tribulation. The Spirit of the Lord led me to tell each of them to seek the Lord concerning these things just as they would anything else. They did, and the Lord has honored that.

A BIG SURPRISE!
Well, in the last few years, we have punctuated this message of sudden destruction and disaster with emphasis (as the Lord has led). In other words, there has been plenty of room for the possibility of anxiety. Our youngest daughter and her husband were very concerned about having children in light of our times. But they prayed and the Lord showed them that He would care for them and their children, and that they should bear children. As a result, they had triplets! Surprise! Well, to them, and to Debbie and me, as well as others close to us - the Lord made clear that He DOES WANT HIS PEOPLE TO CONTINUE CHILDBEARING just as He designed us to through our marriage relationship until He makes clear otherwise (if He ever does).

That being said, I would pray earnestly with your husband on the matter, but unless the Lord tells you not to bear children, I would rejoice that He has brought you together for that central purpose and be fruitful and multiply. Then expect the Lord to lay hold of their lives early, as you train them up in Him so that they may serve Him well!

NOTE: The reference you made from the Olivet discourse in Matthew's account, was specifically an admonition to Jews in Jerusalem during the time of the Abomination of Desolation, and the immediate aftermath of horrendous war, when the Jews would need to escape rapidly. He did not say, "not" to bear children, but to "pray" that you would not be pregnant or nursing small children during that moment. By that, you might conjecture that He was indirectly instructing that prayer should be a part of the time for childbearing, especially during these last days; but He does NOT want us to have fear or anxiety about it, and with none, or with few, or with many, He is still Lord, and He will make the way for the fruit of His people born through living faith!

 2013/3/25 13:15
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3229
Texas

 Re:

Quote:
SkepticGuy.....the greater questions is: who said we are living in the last days??



We have been in the last days for over the past 2000 years. I wonder if in 2000 years into the future, if folks will still be saying the same thing? My guess is yes!


_________________
Mr. Bill

 2013/3/25 13:22Profile









 Re: caution about too much skepticism

I realize this matter is was not the intended subject of this post, but these comments demand a response.

SkepticGuy and MrBillPro, I would caution you and even warn you not to be too skeptical, or casual about your evaluation of the Word of the Lord to His people, and to all the world, warning of His soon return and the judgment to come - certainly not to be flippant as your comments reveal. Our Lord Himself, began this example of proclaiming judgment in such a way that every generation should be warned of His soon return, and the need for spiritual readiness. The Holy Spirit continued to do so through the apostles, and down through the ages through those who were called from among the remnant. It is the Word of the Lord for this hour that you play with so lightly. It is not a little thing that you should do this.

THIS WORD THROUGH ZEPHANIAH SPEAKS SPECIFICALLY TO THOSE WHO MOCK THE SOON-COMING JUDGMENT OF THE LORD, MORE THAN TWO THOUSAND YEARS BEFORE THE ACTUAL "DAY OF THE LORD"
"And it shall come to pass at that time That I will search Jerusalem with lamps, And punish the men Who are settled in complacency, Who say in their heart, 'The LORD will not do good, Nor will He do evil.' Therefore their goods shall become booty, And their houses a desolation; They shall build houses, but not inhabit them; They shall plant vineyards, but not drink their wine." The great day of the LORD is near; It is near and hastens quickly. The noise of the day of the LORD is bitter; There the mighty men shall cry out. That day is a day of wrath, A day of trouble and distress, A day of devastation and desolation, A day of darkness and gloominess, A day of clouds and thick darkness, A day of trumpet and alarm Against the fortified cities And against the high towers." Zep 1:12-16

AGAIN, THE SPIRIT OF THE LORD IS SPEAKING HERE TO THOSE WITH A FLIPPANT ATTITUDE TOWARD HIS SOON RETURN
"knowing this first: that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts, and saying, "Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation." For this they willfully forget: that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of water and in the water, by which the world that then existed perished, being flooded with water. But the heavens and the earth which are now preserved by the same word, are reserved for fire until the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men. But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up." II Peter 3:3-10

Mark Case

 2013/3/25 16:21
SkepticGuy
Member



Joined: 2012/8/8
Posts: 259


 Re:

thank u, mark, but just becuz i think its possible that jesus may not come back for another 2000 yrs duz not mean that i am being flippant about anything. nothing in what i said was flippant. christ could come back 2nite or in the yr 3013. the fact is that every generation has thought "this is it! he's coming now!", yet here we are and they were wrong.

2 things people are passionate about: speaking in tongues and end times. depending on which side u are on, the opposing side considers u 'flippant' or close 2 heretical if u dare not agree with them.

this ought not to be. unfortunately the 'left behind' series has tainted a lot people's theology instead of the bible.

personally i hope he comes back 2nite. i think we will all be here 2morrow tho, writing away on the forum.

 2013/3/25 17:32Profile
SkepticGuy
Member



Joined: 2012/8/8
Posts: 259


 Re:

1 more thing, mark, if i may.

fortunately we are not saved by our eschatology. every1 here could be competely wrong about the end times, and yet we will all go to heaven if we have been regenerated by the spirit of god. if god has revealed himself to us and given us the gift of faith and we surrended our hearts to him and put our trust in jesus christ we are saved. how we think about end times has nothing to do with salvation. i dont know mrbillpro, but i think he is a true believer and brother in christ. i know i am. neither of us used flippant words, nor intended what we said to be perceived flippant.

if we begin 2 make subjectional doctrines and interpretations of scripture the litmus test for whether sum1 is a true believer in christ then we are abusing the word of god. that in itself is 'flippant' according 2 the definition of the word flippant, brother.

there is grace in these things, particularly the end times. there has 2 be! i promise u no one will be 100% correct in their eschatology. how can they be? parts of it are so cryptic.

practice grace, brother.

 2013/3/25 17:44Profile
carters
Member



Joined: 2011/5/24
Posts: 138
Australia

 Re: Pregnancy...having young children in the end days...

THANK YOU all so much for your replies! They were amazing and so full of God's wisdom. Bless you all.

It really does help when we get others in our spiritual body to give insight to an issue.

If I may ask a further personal question:

We have a child who is now 7 years old. When I was pregnant with her I suffered from a debilitating pelvic condition that towards the end of the pregnancy made me unable to walk. I was in alot of pain. The pregnancy was extremely difficult. After the birth I also continued with this problem. Pain problems and also mobility problems. It took me about 10 months to learn to re-walk and then at least 2 or so years to become pain free again.

Medically speaking I suffer from a condition called Symphysis Pubis Dysfunction SPD - and I was one of the unlucky ones who had this condition post pregnancy.

There is no *fix* for it. I have been to many different type s of medical people, physios, osteos etc and they have done the best they can. I still have a slight pain in that area every now and then, but I am pain free and able to be mobile.

Medical advice and opinion is that this condition generally comes back with each subsequent pregnancy, but sometimes not. It is caused by the relaxin hormones in the body.

Our concern is that we have not had any more children because of the risk of it would bring to us as a family and me personally. There is the risk of possible permanent disability. There is also the chance that I may be fine.

We have given this over to the Lord and spoken to each other that we would put this to Godly counsel.
I have been praying that God would speak directly to us on this issue and so far we have not heard.

What would your Godly counsel be in regards to us taking this risk or not, and please can you stand with us in prayer on this issue.

Thank you!


_________________
Mrs Carter

 2013/3/25 18:04Profile





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