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Discussion Forum : General Topics : A great book exposing cheap grace/hyper-grace by David Servant (read for free)

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TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5355
NC, USA

 Re:

MrBill wrote:

"We all sin, what is living in sin? is it someone that sins one time a day, or 100 times a day? Isn't sin, sin? or is there a point or number of sins we commit, before we are considered living in sin?"
-------------------

It's not a matter of quantity, it is a matter of mindset.

From I John 3:

"5 You know that he appeared in order to take away sins, and in him there is no sin. 6 No one who abides in him keeps on sinning; no one who keeps on sinning has either seen him or known him. 7 Little children, let no one deceive you. Whoever practices righteousness is righteous, as he is righteous. 8 Whoever makes a practice of sinning is of the devil, for the devil has been sinning from the beginning. The reason the Son of God appeared was to destroy the works of the devil. 9 No one born of God makes a practice of sinning, for God's seed abides in him, and he cannot keep on sinning because he has been born of God. 10 By this it is evident who are the children of God, and who are the children of the devil: whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is the one who does not love his brother."
_________

I am not sure how this scripture can be misunderstood. It says that a person who is born of God CANNOT keep on sinning, or make a practice of sinning.

The best analogy I have heard to explain this is that of walking vs. stumbling. When we are walking along, and we stumble over something, we don't like it. It embarrasses us. We look around to see if anyone saw us stumble. In other words, we don't WANT to stumble and we don't make it a practice to stumble. We want to walk free from stumbling, at least if we are a normal person.

The same is true of sinning. Yes, we will stumble, but we don't like it and we don't want to do it. In fact we will go to great lengths not to do it, at least if we are a Christian. If we could care less about it, and we do make a practice out of it, then we are not a Christian. That is clearly what John the apostle says.


_________________
Todd

 2013/3/27 11:51Profile









 Re:

Mr. Bill, my brother.

Sorry not to clear in ny post. Bro there are certain charismatic preachers who ars saying that you need not repent of your sins. That after coming to Jesus everything is all under the blood. If you look upon a woman with lustful thinking. No need to confess and repent. If you vet angry with your bro or sister. No need to repent. Indeed you can commit sin of any type you need not repent. I have heard of one preacher who says when you sin God smiles at you because you are covered in Jesus.

Something not quite right here.

Hope this explains what I was trying to convey.

Mr. Bear.

 2013/3/27 12:53
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1414


 Re:

Hi A-servant,
I never claimed this was my thread.What I am saying is Christians should stick to biblical terms to describe what is going on rather than make up terms to suit their agenda.
Paul clearly deals with the subject of Christians that are sinning and preaching another Gospel and doesnt muddy up the good name of "grace".
Cheap grace is another gospel no matter what the good intentions of the writer.
We know their is a problem of false Gospels in the western church but I have seen no solution put forward on Sermonindex other than "they arent really christians in the first place"(some people are in this category)or they "are going to loose their salvation kind of thing"
My guess is that no solution or hope of a solution will appear on this thread either but I do believe God has a plan to deal with these great issues,
Yours Staff

 2013/3/27 16:17Profile
a-servant
Member



Joined: 2008/5/3
Posts: 435


 Re:

"Cheap grace is another gospel no matter what the good intentions of the writer"

Yes, that's exactly what the writer says. These are the intentions of the writer to point that out, with lots of proof.


"My guess is that no solution or hope of a solution will appear on this thread either"

You misunderstand again, because you see yourself as the not-reading-the-book critic by assumption.

This book actually gives one of the best presentations of the true gospel in book form outside of the Bible. Why anyone would not want to read that is beyond me. The solution you choose to overlook and speak against is presented with all major key doctrines and also with all possible objections included, and answered as well.

 2013/3/28 5:11Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1414


 Re:

Hi A servant,
So you are agreeing that their is no such a thing as "cheap grace",Just explain better and I wont misunderstand!
Yours Staff

 2013/3/28 20:30Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

RE ///....agreeing that their is no such a thing as "cheap grace",Just explain better and I wont misunderstand!
Yours Staff///

Grace is not cheap but we relieze when people use such terminology that they are referring to lasciviousness

 2013/3/28 20:39Profile
MrBillPro
Member



Joined: 2005/2/24
Posts: 3228
Texas

 Re:

Posted in wrong thread. :)


_________________
Mr. Bill

 2013/3/28 21:55Profile
pilgrim777
Member



Joined: 2011/9/30
Posts: 1211


 Re:

Quote:
by staff on 2013/3/24 13:42:45
Hi Again,
Terminology is everything on this thread.
.
.
.
It also brings up the issue can a person loose his Salvation which is probably what this thread is really about.



Speaking of terminology, you cannot lose your salvation like losing a set of car keys. Why do you use that term, staff? "Losing your salvation". That implies that the person lost their salvation due to no responsibility of their own. That is not a biblical term. The Bible teaches us to believe on the Son of God and keep believing on the Son of God, to abide in Him and keep abiding in Him. We don't come to Christ one time, and and say a prayer and then go our own way. True salvation produces true fruit. People don't realize that a true disciple will not only exhibit fruit (that lasts) but works, too.

The Bible terms are unbelief, hardness of heart, impenitent heart, stiffnecked, uncircumcised heart, disobedient, etc.

Here is an example: Act 7:51 Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your fathers did, so do ye.

I have just never seen, "lose your salvation". But if we can talk about the previous words I gave, we could make more progress, since they are bible terms.

Quote:
by staff

Hi A-servant,
I never claimed this was my thread.What I am saying is Christians should stick to biblical terms to describe what is going on rather than make up terms to suit their agenda.



With all the new Bible versions coming out we are fast approaching the extinction of "biblical terms" and the Christian "vocabulary". That's another thread going on right now. a-servant has some good posts on it.

I think one of Gods solutions to deal with the issues of our time are annointed teachers that respect the Scriptures and have His heart. But they get run out of town by the contemporary scholars, wordsmiths and Greek "experts".

Quote:
by passerby on 2013/3/23 22:02:03
When the thief on the cross was promised that he will be taken in the paradise, was he forgiven, what repentance did he exhibit?



What the thief exhibited was taking a stand for Christ in front of a mocking crowd. He corrected the other criminal. To me, the thief who received forgiveness, instantly manifested faith and a changed heart by his open confession for all the world (those around him) to hear. Hallelujah! God bless that bro!

Luk 23:39 And one of the malefactors which were hanged railed on him, saying, If thou be Christ, save thyself and us.
Luk 23:40 But the other answering rebuked him, saying, Dost not thou fear God, seeing thou art in the same condemnation?
Luk 23:41 And we indeed justly; for we receive the due reward of our deeds: but this man hath done nothing amiss.
Luk 23:42 And he said unto Jesus, Lord, remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom.


And he said, LORD, remember me...

He looked at an emaciated, bloody, no resemblance of a man's body and called him LORD! And said "remember me when thou comest into thy kingdom".

I don't know about you, but that looks like FAITH to me!!

 2013/3/29 0:36Profile
passerby
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 604


 Re:

The great false religions also advocates hating sins, development of virtuous character, moral excellence, good manners, and good conduct. Even the humanists and the atheists also teach them but they will never attain salvation because of their unbelief in Jesus.

Let me quote these words of Charles Spurgeon (http://www.spurgeon.org/sermons/0044.htm):

"You know there are degrees of faith, and yet the least faith saves; so there are degrees of repentance, and the least repentance will save the soul if it is sincere. The Bible says, "He that believeth shall be saved," and when it says that, it includes the very smallest degree of faith. So when it says, "Repent and be saved," it includes the man who has the lowest degree of real repentance.

Repentance, moreover, is never perfect in any man in this mortal state. We never get perfect faith so as to be entirely free from doubting; and we never get repentance which is free from some hardness of heart. The most sincere penitent that you know will feel himself to be partially impenitent.

Repentance is also a continual life-long act. It will grow continually. I believe a Christian on his death-bed will more bitterly repent than ever he did before. It is a thing to be done all your life long. Sinning and repenting—sinning and repenting, make up a Christian's life.

Repenting and believing in Jesus—repenting and believing in Jesus, make up the consummation of his happiness. You must not expect that you will be perfect in "repentance" before you are saved. No Christian can be perfect. "Repentance" is a grace. Some people preach it as a condition of salvation. Condition of nonsense! There are no conditions of salvation."

 2013/3/29 19:03Profile
staff
Member



Joined: 2007/2/8
Posts: 1414


 Re:

HI Pilgrim,hope you are well,
When using the term "loosing your salvation" I am expressing the sentiment some other people have not myself.I am more in line with a view ranging from you cannot loose your salvation to its extremely difficult to loose your salvation.
The problem with the "anointed preachers" is they have no power and also a poor understanding of the end times,
With you on the thief couldnt imagine what the bible and the Church would be like without that Passage,
yours staff

 2013/3/29 20:23Profile





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