| Re: |
If someone is wondering about that, please read carefully the NT start with the book of Galatians.
Let us be cautious with our judgement or accusations. Let us define carefully what is 'easy-believism', 'decisionism', 'altar call', or 'cheap grace'(by Bonhoeffer)lest we fall into a craze like Saul of Tarsus when he was persecuting the early Christians then.
| 2013/3/24 12:46||Profile|
| Re: A great book exposing cheap grace/hyper-grace by David Servant (read for free)|
Hi Jolliboy11 ,
I have not read this book that you mentioned by David Servant,as yet,
but I would like to comment on this SO important subject,(false-grace-gospel) Please bare with me.
After an encounter with the Spirit of God,desiring that I study "the kingdom of Heaven / God", and stemming from what He showed me,with study
One morning He spoke to me and said: "The kingdom of God,is the
resurrected Lord in us" I then,as soon as I could,went to the the Scriptures to confirm this Word. I learned,...it was so,...he is not a dead Spirit /Word in
He taught me,that He comes in,by Way of the Holy Spirit to be Lord,(rule)
be our King in this kingdom.that He is drawing us into,by the Spirit of Grace.( by this Devine influence upon the heart,and it's refflection in the Life.)
And, that the Gospel is the Gospel of the kingdom....
I,...with the help of The Lord,...searched this out,in the Scriptures,
and Jesus would say," THIS Gospel of the kingdom"shall be preached "so the Gospel is," The gospel of the kingdom"
That in it,..all revolves around this...and as I continued, I was amazed to find that in Paul's writings,that he was preaching "the kingdom of Heaven / God,...
.." things pertaining to or concerning the kingdom.
What I find is,...if we can believe in the word Jesus,..and not what that Name stands for,...then there is no obligation in the doing of the Word.
Grace Drawes us to repent,and to be washed by the Water of the Word...to be clothed in righteousness.
All for Him,
| 2013/3/24 13:49||Profile|
| Re: |
Respectfully, my brothers, we can split hairs over the terminology. Whether one calls it cheap grace or hyper grace. It js still an insideous teaching being popularized in the body if Christ. It's bottom line teaching is all sin is under the blood and the Christian is not obligated to pursue practical holiness or crucify the flesh on a daily basis. Any such activity on the part of the believer is construed as legalism.
In the most extreme perversion of grace Christians can sin and not need to repent. A brother in Charlotte NC, whose name I cannot remember. But was posted in the forum a few weeks ago is addressing this herectical teaching.
It might be worth looking at Jude 4 as he writes about such men who have crept into the church and were turning the grace of God into a license for sin. As someone has said. There is nothing new under the son.
| 2013/3/24 14:59|
| Re: |
Elisabeth agree with your precious insights about the kingdom. The resurrected Jesus, his word in us. I think of the verses in Titus that speak of his grace that not only brings salvation. But his grace teaches us to say no to "no" to ungodliness and worldly passions. And to live self controlled, upright, and godly lives as we wait for his return.
Indeed this is the true grace of God.
| 2013/3/24 15:12|
Monroe, LA - USA
| Re: |
What the book points out is a very needed subject in this day in time. It points out that grace was bought by the blood of Christ (certainly not cheap!), but the if grace has truly been applied in the life of a person, there will be EVIDENCE in the form of a transformed life. The perverted grace (or cheap grace if you wish to call it that ... it means the same thing) that Jude 4 mentions is "grace" that becomes a license to sin.
Jud 1:4 For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.
Sadly, I have seen more of that version of "grace" amongst people who supposedly believe in Christ than the real grace that teaches what Paul to Titus states:
Tit 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,
Tit 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;
The sad reality that he points out in the introduction is that MANY will be like the unsuspecting Jews who were hauled off to death camps like Auschwitz thinking that they were being fumigated for lice but they were being gassed to death to be burned.
MANY will stand before Christ in that day ...
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
| 2013/3/24 15:37||Profile|
| Re: Doctianity versus Christianity|
Will the theologians please Sit Down by David Bercot, Scroll publishing p 5-7
Casper Zacher trembled in fear as he was led into the courtroom in chains. He glanced around the room, looking for sympathetic faces, but he saw none. instead, he spied a number of his enemies-townspeople with whom he had argued. Casper desperately studied the face of the judge for sighns of sympathy, but all he saw was a stern countenance. Casper was convinced he faced certain death.
The Year was 1562. The place was the town of Waiblingen in southwestern Germany. The Charge heresey. The scenrio was one that had been witnessed countless times in Europe for a thousand years or more. Most of those heresey trials had been conducted by RCC authorities. However, the authorities whom Casper faced were Lutheran. Times had changed, but the nature of Christendom had not.
Casper could scarcely keep from trembling when his turn came to stand before the judge. The charges were read. He was being accused of heresey--specifically of belonging to a group known as the Anabaptist. When asked to enter his plea, Casper emphatically denied the claim.
I'M A good lutheran, Casper protested. I've never had anything to do with those horrid people!
The state then methodically presented its case against Casper. One by one, various townspeople took the stand and testified against him. Several people described Casper as an envious an , always coveting what others had. Nearly every witness testified that Casper was extremely quarrelsome, frequently getting into arguments and fights with others. They pointed out that they had heard him swear and curse in public many times. A few witnesses reported that he had nearly always carried a knife or sword with him when he went out of his house. The whole town hated him.
When the witnesses finished testifying, Casper was certain he would be found guilty. He knew he couldn't deny the truth of what the witnesses had said. Looking Casper staight in the eyes, the judge cleared his throat and began to speak:
Haveing heard all the evidence presented by the state's witnesses, this court finds the defendant, Casper Zacher..."
Casper swallowed hard, dreading to hear the judges next word.
Caspar could hardly believe his ears.
The judge went on to explain his decision: "The witnesses are uniform in testifying that you are an envious and quarrelsome man. You fequently curse in public, and you go about town carring weapons. You are a disagreeable man, justly hated by your townsmen. But fortunately, you are obviously not one of those detestable heretics, the Anabaptist. For the life you live is exactly opposite theirs. They would never have you. You are just as you say, an orthodox christian.
It was a happy day for Caspar Zacher, but a black day for christianity. A man was acquitted of heresy because he lived an ungodly life.
| 2013/3/24 16:04||Profile|
| Re: |
Terminology is everything on this thread.
This term cheap grace does not appear in the bible full stop.
Bonoeffor didnt write the bible last time i checked
The problem here is that we have Christians not behaving the way they should and you dont no what to do about it except call them non
Christians or in danger of becoming so.
It also brings up the issue can a person loose his Salvation which is probably what this thread is really about.
Its amazing to me how quickly people forget that they were once sinners and that we cannot live in Ivory towers,
| 2013/3/24 16:42||Profile|
| Re: |
I have to agree somewhat with Staff here.
I understand the concern with the watered down message that is preached in many churches, and the need to get back to what the gospel is all about. However, I'm not sure books such as the one linked are necessarily the right way to go about it.
I actually read David Servant's book (and a load of other stuff from his teaching ministry) a few years ago, and descended into a black depression after doing so. The message had the following effect (which I will present in the form of a syllogism):
- The teaching states that the true gospel will produce a high standard of holy living and righteousness in you, and if that isn't you then you're not saved.
- You then look at yourself and, after musing on actually how sinful your heart is, conclude you must be a false Christian.
-You then cry out to God for 'true' salvation, on multiple occasions.
- However, this 'true' salvation and high standard of holiness does not seem to come.
- You then (after perhaps trying to live out the true Christian life and failing miserably) conclude that you must be eternally damned and...
- You actually begin to despise this god who refuses to save you.
I am convinced that this happens with many, many people.
Faced with such a gloomy prospect I found myself with only two options:
1. Continue to believe that I am a 'false' Christian (one which God seems reluctant to turn into a 'true' Christian) and live in the resulting misery.
2. Reject such teaching that, frankly, makes God appear to be very stingy when it comes to mercy, and instead believe on scriptures (such as John 6:37) that clearly say the opposite.
Naturally, I chose the second option(though the whole thing does haunt me on occasion, as many of my posts on here make evident).
I don't want to discredit Mr. Servant - his ministry 'Heavens Family' does some amazing work around the world, and the approach to money, giving and finances that they model and promote is praiseworthy.
However, I really question how beneficial this particular teaching is.
| 2013/3/24 19:14|
| Re: |
Respectfully brothers. Can one have s relationship with Jesus and not hve a changed life? 2.Cor. 5:17 says if anyone is in Christ Jesus he is a new creation. The old is gone. The new has come.
| 2013/3/24 19:35|
| Re: |
Again I say respectfully. Hairs are being split over terminology. The question is. Can one be saved by grace and still live in a continual state of practicing sin? The message of Dave Sergent's book should be examined. Is he bringing up a valid concern? Is the teaching if hyper grace or cheap grace a dangerous heresy? Is this a valid concern to the body if Christ?
| 2013/3/24 19:58|