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hoohoou
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Joined: 2009/12/11
Posts: 212
Texas

 Re:

Well then, at least we agreed:) Sorry about misreading the post.

I think you may have gotten the wrong idea about what I was saying about a method. The point I was trying to convey is that there is no method that will usher in the Holy Spirit. I certainly have no issue with the Holy Spirit. Also, to my point about revival, my intent was to say that there was no particular method before the revival began. It was church as usual, albeit with more than usual prayer.

Yeah, I'm in for a fight in the Nazarene church. I didn't choose it, you can be sure of that. There were way too many "coincidences" that led to me being there for me to think it was anything other than the hand of God. I recently attended an AG church, so it's quite a change. I've always like a good fight, so maybe I'm in the right place. I've always seen myself as a kind of reformer. Maybe that's something God has placed in me for a reason. I won't give up on the establishment churches. If they are as far off the mark as many here think they are, and I don't disagree very much on that point, then I've got a fertile field.

Again, I do apologize for misreading your post, and I hope this doesn't read as a defense of that mistake. I'm not trying to do anything but clarify my points.


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Matt Smith

 2013/3/23 1:16Profile
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 Re:

Here is something I wanted to put out here into the discussion. Are there other examples of the meeting of church in the Scripture other than the one put out there? Are there meetings where prayer is pre-dominant? Are there meetings where one teacher teaches primarily? Are there meetings where the Lords supper was practiced and remembered?

Could it be possible there were 4 types of meetings in the early church?

1. A teaching meeting where a brother who was a gifted teacher taught. (Acts 18:11)

2. A sharing meeting where many saints shared and prophesied. (1 cor 14:26-28).

3. A prayer meeting (Acts 4:23-24)

4. A meeting where the Lord's supper is remembered. (Acts 20:7)



I could have added many more references and put even better one's for each meeting. It can be considered that some of these meetings where joined together but I thought it would be worth noting this possibility.

Brother Zac Poonen believers there are 3 meetings ie the first 1-3 and the Lords supper is part of one of the other one's.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2013/3/23 8:53Profile









 Re:

HI hoohoou, I think if you read the OP there is no method laid down nor one argued for. I was looking for comments on 1 Cor 14 and asking what people thought about how Paul was instructing the folks on how meetings should take place. After all, we all have our opinions but Scripture is of course our final authority upon which all of our opinions should be based. Yes indeed brother, you are in for a fight but one must always be where one is led by the Lord so may the Lord bless you..............bro Frank

 2013/3/23 9:27









 Re:

Hi dear brother. I do not believe that one can argue from Scripture that there was different kinds of meetings ( not to say that there was not, but much of the argument would have to come from silence or supposition)

Lets take the Scriptural examples you gave. In Acts 18:11 it is stated that he continued there for a year and a half, the " there" being Corinth. Now we know well from 1 Cor 14 how they Corinthians were meeting and how Paul said they should be meeting. If you read the rest of Acts 18 for context, I think one would find that the teaching was taking place in the synagogue, in fact seven times this is mentioned so there is no doubt. Paul teaching in the synagogue should not be confused with what was going on in the meetings of believers in Corinth.

And of course the next Scripture mentioned, 1 Cor 14:26-28 is in fact what was going on amongst believers in Corinth when they met as opposed to what was taking place in the Synagogue.

In Acts 4:23-24 a plain reading of those Scriptures is simply the Apostles reporting back what had happened and then a spontaneous rejoicing to God taking place.

In Acts 20 it is spoken of them breaking bread, yet in Acts 2 it is reported that they broke bread daily. And again in Acts 5:42 we see that they not only broke bread daily their meetings in homes, they also " ceased not to teach and preach Jesus Christ." So, according to the Scriptural account, in these meetings they were breaking bread, teaching and preaching. There seems to be a clear delineation between what was going on in the synagogue where they were not in charge, and in their homes where they were in charge. And since much of this is based in Corinth ( Acts 18:11, 1 Cor 14:26-28) and Paul spoke clearly how the services should take place, there is nothing to suggest that in a single meeting, there was breaking of bread, preaching, teaching and the gifts of the Holy Spirit in operation.............bro Frank

 2013/3/23 9:58









 Re: "'By My Spirit,' Says the Lord"

Brother Gregg, I know that you know these things but I thought good to share them for all readers. Thank you for pointing out the possibility, and even likelihood of various kinds of meetings. My explanation seems a bit simplistic, but it is sufficient nonetheless. While there should be regular meetings where all are invited to freely participate, there may very well be meetings when the Holy Spirit is working a particular work among God's people that may be characterized another way. Thus, meetings may vary from time to time according to the Spirit's direction. That's the short answer, and that is entirely Biblical.

Here again we must remember that the Lord builds His work by His Spirit, and who can know what the Spirit might call for in an assembly that He calls together? And to assume that no other kind of meeting than those few illustrated through the early church Biblical record can be held, would be to assume too much. With that narrow approach, there is the great danger of religious form.

Here we have the opportunity once again to realize that God did not leave us with only a book (as precious and priceless as the Bible is), but He also left us His Spirit. Regarding His Spirit's role for us now, the Bible makes abundantly clear that we are to be at His every beck and call.

It tells us that we are first convicted by His Spirit when we are lost, then born again by His Spirit, endued with power by His Spirit, made partakers of His divine nature by His Spirit, supernaturally gifted of His Spirit, seated in heavenly places by His Spirit, that Christ is in us by His Spirit, we are to be guided and taught by His Spirit, given divine revelation by His Spirit, assembled together by His Spirit, fitted together as living stones by His Spirit, and on, and on, by His Spirit.

In our home, we have had meetings that lasted all weekend. I cannot remember having a meeting for fewer than five hours once a week and approximately two hours at least once or twice the same week. We did not get it all exactly right, I'm sure; but I'm also sure that for the most part those meetings were led by the Spirit.

During our extended weekend meetings the Spirit led some to teach, some to pray, some to exhort through testimony, some to sing and to lead others in singing, etc... but in these various meetings held throughout a three day period, all were edified by the Spirit and God was glorified. There was rest in between. He was glorified not only in the meetings, but afterward when each member of the body went back out into the world where he or she lived!

We must realize that the place of meeting, the length of time of meeting, the kind of meeting, the outcome of the meeting, the time of day or night of the meeting, the number of believers in the meeting, and a host of other factors that could set the stage for a meeting can all vary. All is based upon the Spirit's lead, whether this group meets at this time, and for how long, and whether the Spirit leads them to intercede for two hours before they worship in song, or not to worship in song at all, or whatever - all this is by the Spirit. The leadership that the Spirit appoints, assuming that they are of pure heart and are led of the Spirit will know how to begin and the Spirit will confirm and move from there.

I would make clear that the general working of the Spirit will be relatively consistent since meetings are opportunities for the various members of the body to manifest their measures of Christ's gift. Here again, God's objective is more important than our form; but we know that God has designed that we should assemble together, preferably with leaders that He provides, and with the "jump start" of that leadership (or from another member of the body but with consensus of the leader, or the other members if there is no leader), the Spirit continues to lead.

Just today I had a dear brother ask me why I did not give a more definitive answer to one of his particular curiosities. He shrugged off the fact that I simply put that his need was to seek the mind and will of the Spirit. Many times our answers to Biblical / spiritual questions can be 1, 2, 3 factual, but sometimes they must be "by the Spirit." That doesn't seem sufficient to some, and others complain that it is a cop-out to answer in that fashion, but it is solidly illustrated all the way through the Bible and is the bull's eye of the New Covenant.

When believers learn to hear the Spirit, walk in the Spirit, trust the Spirit, and learn from Him together... WOW! That's when we really get edified and then God will really be glorified!

Please excuse my longwindedness again, brother. You are a blessing indeed, and what a blessing it is to participate from time to time.

 2013/3/23 23:55









 Re: Different Kinds of Meetings

Brother Appolus, I just now noticed that we might not agree on the issue of various kinds of meetings, but that's ok. (You'll come around. :)

I sure look forward to being in a meeting with you and others the Lord brings together again. Won't it be great when we get together without a short time constraint as we had in our last on in Atlanta (last year)? If (when) that happens again, I believe you would be a fantastic leader. I have read some of your posts along the way and as far as I am concerned, I think you are a Spirit-led man. I would gladly sit on the back row and enjoy your Spirit-led leadership!

blessings and love in Christ to you brother!

 2013/3/24 0:10









 Re:

I think all the replies in this thread are awesome. And I truly appreciate the input. I really do not believe that there is any real dis-agreement at all. It was more academic for me to see what the Scriptures strictly said about meetings and by the same token, what it did not say. Here is the one place and it may be more semantical than obvious , that I think is important to me ( and it may not be important to anyone else:) Proclaimit writes ...........

"While there should be regular meetings where all are invited to freely participate, there may very well be meetings when the Holy Spirit is working a particular work among God's people that may be characterized another way. Thus, meetings may vary from time to time according to the Spirit's direction. That's the short answer, and that is entirely Biblical."

Now I entirely agree with that. I think the key phrase is " according to the Spirit's direction." And for me that is the key point. If we trust that the Lord will lead and guide us, I believe that there is less of a need to put a title on a meeting. The very act of putting a title on a meeting could possibly be constraining to the Spirit's work. Now, this is not a large point for me, I am just expressing what is in my heart. It would never be a point of contention. If brothers want to call a meeting a " prayer meeting," or a " communion service," or whatever, I really do not have a problem with that. As long as our " prayer meetings," or " communion services," or any other is under the authority of the Holy Spirit and He is always preeminent and able to lead. God bless you both and I so look forward to being in meetings with both my dear brothers. There are exciting things ahead no doubt and the Lord is doing a new thing I believe.............bro Frank

 2013/3/24 12:34
MaryJane
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Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

I was thinking on this a bit more and I was thinking about those early believers meeting together. I was thinking how their entire lives revolved around and in submission to CHRIST and other believers. Their days seemed to be filled with caring for each other and furthering HIS KINGDOM. As such when they came together it wasn't a meeting it was brothers and sisters sharing, listening, caring for, and loving one another in HIM. It wasn't any kind of function, it was natural and organic, it was family...it was living life daily one to another in HIM! They weren't "doing" Church, they were Church :)

Wow how amazing that would be to have been apart of, no wonder others who saw how they lived knew them by their love and care for each other and devotion to JESUS. They were family all belong to HIM! :)

Great thread loved reading what GOD has shown everyone. Learning so much from everyone and just thankful for HIS allowing me to be apart.

God bless
mj

 2013/3/24 13:06Profile
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Quote:
I was thinking on this a bit more and I was thinking about those early believers meeting together. I was thinking how their entire lives revolved around and in submission to CHRIST and other believers. Their days seemed to be filled with caring for each other and furthering HIS KINGDOM. As such when they came together it wasn't a meeting it was brothers and sisters sharing, listening, caring for, and loving one another in HIM. It wasn't any kind of function, it was natural and organic, it was family...it was living life daily one to another in HIM! They weren't "doing" Church, they were Church :)



Well said sister.


I would also add another thought to this conversation that a church body will look and act different at different levels of formation. The goal is not to get to where everyone can share something but rather the maturity of the body of Christ. This can come through a brother Paul or other elder brothers who are given a heart to encourage the maturing of the body of Christ.

Though there is an abuse of the one pastor idea in Churches in the New Testament there are strong brothers that are looked to in different assemblies for the encouraging of the body. This is not wrong for a season if it is encouraging the raising up of other leaders in the body of Christ. But when that strong brother demands to be the head of the meeting and control everyone and have everyone dependent on him then it has gone wrong.

a true leader wants people to be dependent on the true head Jesus Christ. and lead people into their callings and giftings so they can be fruitful to God Himself. Thus in a sense all leaders in the body of Christ are temporary or transient as the body grows.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2013/3/24 16:28Profile
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 Re:

MaryJane said, "I was thinking on this a bit more and I was thinking about those early believers meeting together. I was thinking how their entire lives revolved around and in submission to CHRIST and other believers. Their days seemed to be filled with caring for each other and furthering HIS KINGDOM. As such when they came together it wasn't a meeting it was brothers and sisters sharing, listening, caring for, and loving one another in HIM. It wasn't any kind of function, it was natural and organic, it was family...it was living life daily one to another in HIM! They weren't "doing" Church, they were Church :)"

Excellent word, sister. Just beautiful. I think this is a very key thing. They weren't trying to have a meeting; they were just walking out their love relationship with the Lord, and with one another. Call it "first love." This is what the church of Ephesus had in her beginnings. Somehow they left this (Rev. 2.4), and it was such a serious departure that the Lord said He was about ready to no longer consider them even a church in His sight... regardless how proficient they might have felt they were in "doing" church otherwise. He called them to return to this first love, and do the first works-- spontaneous works that sprang out of their love relationship with Him and with one another.

...Perhaps it could be likened to Moses when he came down from the mount. He didn't know that the skin of his face shone because he had been communing with God. He wasn't conscious of the fact that the glory was on his face. I think that's what meetings should be like-- a sort of spiritual un-self-consciousness because everyone is so conscious of the Lord Jesus and focused on Him. And they will be like this when we too are absorbed in the love of God and the glory of God.

So primarily this is what we should be seeking, and not how to "do" church, as MJ said. If I have this-- this love, this glory-- I won't have a problem knowing what I should "do" in a meeting. It'll just flow out of me. And if I don't have it, whatever I "do" is likely going to be somewhat artificial.



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Allan Halton

 2013/3/24 17:58Profile





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