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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Is Words and how we understand them really important ?

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proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

A new Born Baby does not yet understand words, The parent can not communicate with a new born with words.
But they do have ways to communicate with a New Born.

I have heard of Those woman whom have had a new born in which bites the nipple, the mom will some times communicate with the baby with a light pull of the hair or light pinch or light thump.
All the new born knows is that when it clamps down with its jaws on the nipple, that it will immediately recieve a negative sensation.
As time goes on the Baby will also learn that along with the negative sensation that there also is an audible (no!) sound that accompanies the negative sensation.
And as some more time goes on the young child will connect the word (no!) with a negative sensation.
And the Child will than learn what the audible (no!) means, likewise the child will learn by positive sensations what words like (yes) and (good) mean, and from this the Child Grows and learns to articulately communicate with the parent.

Matthew 18:3
And said, Verily I say unto you, Except ye be converted, and become as little children, ye shall not enter into the kingdom of heaven.

 2013/3/21 14:41Profile









 Re:

Brother you may well have “heard” these things but the formula and composition were put together by Michael & Debbie Pearl. It forms part of their psychology of spirituality approach to truth. I know I have said it before but whenever I read this stuff I feel grieved. Brother there is no correspondence in meaning between Matthew 18:3 and a communication method which relies on operant conditioning for its effect. To confuse the two is difficult to understand. This is especially true when you read the posts in this thread which make clear that true meaning is that which the Spirit Himself communicates and does not require a form of phonological sounds. In reality when the Spirit speaks to us in our inner parts there is no structure which comes even close to language as we understand it.

I accept that the gospel is by and large communicated through speech and that this speech necessarily has to take the form of words, but this is the beginning and not the object. Once a person is born again they should be able to hear the Spirit in their own consciences where a single moment can communicate more than a book could expound or a man could speak in a day.

Quote:
Interestingly, the experience of a revelation that transcends language, takes us back to the original question: are words all that important?

MC



Elizabeths first post had to do with this clarity which Mike shared a few minuets ago. It was always clear even from the first comments and it has become visible by the latter. To go back to psychology is perplexing to me. Perhaps I should stop posting on this site altogether. Public discussions simply don’t make any sense to me at all. I think in the end I will leave and put my time to other things. That can only mean preaching the gospel, I sincerely and truly hope so.

 2013/3/21 15:21
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: amrkelly

I am confuzed at what you are implying by this statement:

amrkelly wrote ////Brother you may well have “heard” these things but the formula and composition were put together by Michael & Debbie Pearl. It forms part of their psychology of spirituality approach to truth.////

The only similarity that I know of connecting what I wrote with what I am aware of what the Pearls have written, has no conection at all with the spirtual reality that I presented.

The scenario of the nipple biting infant can be found within the Pearls child training writtings but it is not exclusive to them nor do they use it in spirtual context, they use the scenario in a completely different context than I did,
they use it in a practical child training senerio,which does not reflect the context that I used it in.

I am not aware of the Pearls teaching,listening to the Spirit as I intended by my post but I have found a very similar understanding taught by bro Denny Kenaston and others.

amrkelly wrote /// I know I have said it before but whenever I read this stuff I feel grieved.///

This could be because you often seem to add assumptions that where never intended and often seem to miss the Gist of what is being presented.

amrkelly wrote ///Brother there is no correspondence in meaning between Matthew 18:3 and a communication method which relies on operant conditioning for its effect. To confuse the two is difficult to understand. This is especially true when you read the posts in this thread which make clear that true meaning is that which the Spirit Himself communicates and does not require a form of phonological sounds. In reality when the Spirit speaks to us in our inner parts there is no structure which comes even close to language as we understand it.///

I am again confused at what you are implying.

What I wrote was not intended as a direct response to anyones specific post, Mikes question of 'are words all that important? in the context of experience of a revelation that transcends language' was part of my thoughts but my post was not a direct response to any post

I was giving an analogy between the similarity of how new born Babies hear their parents and Babes in Christ hear their father.

I did not intend to imply a connection between an infant learning to understand his parents audible laungauge and some how the Christian communicating or hearing by a form of spiritual phonological sounds.

The connection was merely intended as connecting the simmilarity between a child growing and learning to communicate and understand the will of their parents and The Babe in Christ learning to understand and discern the promptings, convictions and the experiences of revelation that transcends language.




















 2013/3/21 17:49Profile









 Re:

Brothers our sister had opened up a sweet spirited thread and I am enjoying the fragrance of Jesus found here. You both are my brothers and made valuable contributions. Let us continue to edify and bask in the presence of Christ and get continuing revelation what God US showing us in tbis. I do enjoy your post. As well as what our sister, Eksabeth had opened up here.

In his peace.

Bearmaster.

 2013/3/21 17:59









 Re:

I am going to share this simple point and then Im finished. By that I mean I am finished posting on SI altogether.

Quote:
The only similarity that I know of connecting what I wrote with what I am aware of what the Pearls have written, has no connection at all with the spiritual reality that I presented.



You made two statements and they are connected by reason of numbers of posts which have been taken out of the writings of the Pearls. Regardless as to the intention, connections are made by reason of the power and meaning which language produces. This post by Elizabeth began on that very premise. The sister used the word “bandied about” this is one kind of reality. The second statement had to do with suffering little children to come unto the Lord.

The conclusion inevitably came by that inference, that real spiritual communication is not a matter of spoken language (phonology or sound of language) but by spiritual means. You say that you were presenting a spiritual reality. No you were not. You were presenting an idea. Precisely how it is formed in your thinking or why, is irrelevant to the words which clearly have there own form and would also have there own effect.

None of this matters. I am in any event finished. Why this should be so, precisely now has more to do with the fact that I am unable to go on due to several posts which I have contributed to of late and which finally and completely convince me that nothing is to be had with so many minds of dissension where even the smallest detail of truth can be argued over as though truth were a matter of opinion. It is better for me to accept that I am unable to contribute any further and that I ought to return to that which produces the better outcome. How I feel about this is also irrelevant. When I am crossing over a precipice and the options before me are likely to lead to my own dissension I would rather cut the rope and fall than stumble others.

I can say though proudpapa that you have been a faithful brother to me more than once and have shown a good spirit as well.

 2013/3/21 18:25
passerby
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 742


 Re:

There are at least two forms in which higher beings communicate or express themselves, verbal and non-verbal.

Words, languages, or even mathematical and programming expressions give structure and represent our thoughts especially those that are highly complex.

There is a dictum in psychiatry; Non-verbal communication is more accurate in determining the real sentiments of a person. A person can verbally deny that he is angry
but the pitch of his voice and the frown on his forehead, otherwise reveals it.

If a person is not able to express his grievance or displeasure in a more 'civil' way, because for example he fears his boss, then he may express it by destroying things, spreading gossips, etc.

If a person has no alexia nor auditory aphasia and he is skilled to understand the particular language and the grammar used in the communication process then he may really catch the entire information that is being expressed.

In reading the bible there are at least two things that we can learn, the information and the spiritual revelation.

For example in reading the book of Daniel you can read historical information or that eating predominantly vegetable can be better than certain dietary prescription, but how about the spiritual revelation, about yourself for example, or about Israel, about God, or about the counsel of God.

 2013/3/21 18:59Profile
passerby
Member



Joined: 2008/8/13
Posts: 742


 Re:

There are the moments when we even fail over and over again to get the correct information as we do our individual and group bible study. But we do receive spiritual revelations that enable us to continue and grow in our faith and sanctification.

Has someone noticed that as we read the bible over and over again, we learn not new informations only but new spiritual revelations as well, with the same bible passages.

Well, according to the the counsel of God that we learn and grow. He knows us even before the foundation of the world.


Jeremiah 29:13 " You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart."

 2013/3/21 19:44Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

amrkelly wrote ///I can say though proudpapa that you have been a faithful brother to me more than once and have shown a good spirit as well.///

It is difficult to communicate on these forums and I my self have always struggled with all kinds of communication and articulation of my thoughts.

amrkelly you also have been a faithful brother and have continued to show me grace, even after heated discussions.

Many of your post have benifeted me, some much more than you could relieze. When you write things like 'don't be mystical be real' You will never in this lifetime relieze the prevention of error and depth of truth such advise will make on someone such as myself.










 2013/3/21 20:09Profile
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1148


 Re: Is Words and how we understand them really important?


Please,...my dear brothers,

I really do not know what to say,..
Except,I care

elizabeth

 2013/3/22 0:13Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7534
Mississippi

 Re:

____________________________________________________________
QUOTE:
"I am going to share this simple point and then Im finished. By that I mean I am finished posting on SI altogether."
____________________________________________________________


Andrew, I hate to see you leave SI having appreciated your insights. But I must now wonder why you posted at all? In the context of Believers it is an iron sharpening iron process. To sharpen iron means there will be friction which is essential to maintain the usefulness of a knife. In Believers it is bad when egos come into play and people get upset with each other. I would suppose all of who have been here a while have gotten upset at someone at some point or another - I have and so have others. But we learn and the main thing is that people do not always understand or see things the way we do. But we go on, we forgive. Unless there is serious doctrine at stake we let well enough be.

God bless you, Andrew. Just wanted you to know there is one poster here who did appreciate your postings even if I rarely responded to them.

ginnyrose


_________________
Sandra Miller

 2013/3/22 3:01Profile





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