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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Where does God stand on marriage?

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MaryJane
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Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Where does God stand on marriage?

Greetings

I am looking for some counsel for more mature Christians on the topic of gay marriage and where GOD stands on marriage. I am speaking with another younger believer who does not see that marriage from a secular government is sanctioned by God or as something that God established. In their point of view as Christians we believe that GOD has for us to be the spouse of one husband or one wife until death do us part but that we can't deny a secular group of people the ability to be married in a secular government setting? No matter if they are of another race, religion, or belief system. In this persons view if a gay person wants to be married by a secular governing body and have the secular government recognize that relationship as legal that it is discrimination to deny them that when people of all other faiths and races are allowed to marry. How would you share with this person. The thing is they do believe homosexuality is sin and that it should and must be repented of if one is saved but they do no believe that Christians can regulate morality to a secular world or on secular people? How do you respond to this?? When I mentioned that the secular government does not allow people to just go out and murder each other that we have laws on that this person said that the laws are there to protect each persons right to life so they have laws in place but a person choosing to live in homosexuality, premarital sin, adultery or any other sin that does not harm others is not up to us to regulate. They believe we can pray for them to see the sin they are in but can not force them. Interestingly this person is pro life though and against abortion...

Not sure how to precede in speaking to them and thoughts?

God bless
mj

Edit: I wanted to just add that reaching out to this person is really important to me, I don't want to run away from this topic with them. I do believe that they have a genuine love for the LORD but there is a lot of "progressive thinking" that needs to be weeded out I think. I am going to be doing some study on marriage itself and try to further understand GODS heart on this topic. I know this person is trying to keep the two separate(secular marriages of unsaved people and Christian understanding for those who are saved) and I think this is where I am struggling on how to share with them.

 2013/3/5 10:50Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7421
Mississippi

 Re: Where does God stand on marriage?

I just read your post, MaryJane and will give you my insight to this issue.

If marriage is a religious ritual, your friend would be right. But it is a human institution, not a religious one like baptism or communion. It was instituted by God in the creation for the propagation of the species - check other life forms for how they reproduce. AND in the case of humans there is that added dimension of fellowship with each other and God - something missing in other forms.

Marriage did not begin with any other culture or religion - it is practiced globally.

Now, I can also see where your friend is going with her argument because depending on what you say, there will be more perplexing questions - depending on where you stand on some issues but will leave it for the moment.

So she believes that morality cannot be regulated???? So, why on earth are there any laws made by secular lawmakers?? WHY?? Is it essential that once man abandons God's law for life they will feel compelled to make their own laws which in too many incidents are a mere reflection of God's, albeit perverted.

So she believes it is OK to sin, live in sin, practice sin until a person comes to the LORD...hmmmm. Mary Jane, I think you have a testimony that would address this issue. You need to share with her how your sins (indulged in before conversion) comes back to haunt you even now. You may not like it but it may be helpful to the lady you are talking with.

No, one cannot force another to be moral...but the reality is that whether laws are in place to limit immorality, the law of nature is at work imposing its own penalties on immoralities. For example, there are STD's - more now then ever before; incidents of breast cancer is rising due to abortions.

Still...as a former pro-life worker I do see a lot that is futile in the pro-life industry. I will never discourage anyone involved in it but I do believe the focus is misplaced too many times. Preachers, laypersons are silent about sin - this is where it should be fought - from the pulpit and in the personal lives of the pew-warmers. People must learn to distance themselves from sources that tempt but they do not want to - think they are strong enough to withstand the temptations but life has proven otherwise. Having said that, there are people who will refuse something simply because the law says so and that does have merit for the ungodly because they need restraints.

If a person is fighting conviction of the Holy Spirit there is little one can say to win a debate.

Hope this makes sense..may think of more as time passes...

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2013/3/5 13:54Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

They believe if one citizen has the legal right to do something then it should be allowed for all because we are talking about a secular law being applied to the countries citizens equally. This person does not believe people will be more moral or behave less sinful just because the laws tell them they must. You are right I do not want to be caught up in debating with them though. The topic has been discussed a few times and I do think because this person is younger they see things differently then I am. They made it clear they believes homosexuality is sinful and wrong but they also believe we as a country do not have the right to deny one citizen what all other citizens are allowed by law to do...Not sure what more I can say but am praying.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts I do appreciate you taking the time to do so.

God bless
maryjane

 2013/3/5 21:07Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 7421
Mississippi

 Re:

Mary Jane,

It is hard to debate people who will work to wiggle out of morality, who feel ALL morality should flow from the heart only. The problem with this mindset is that the unregenerate are bound by law, they refuse to surrender to what their heart informs is the right thing to do. This is why we need law and civil authorities to enforce laws to restrain evil.

Let us consider anger. Many folks get angry and that is sin, but some will hurt others in their anger, even killing at times. One cannot legislate anger but you can restrict killing. If this would not be done who would still be alive?

____________________________________________________________
QUOTE:
"do not have the right to deny one citizen what all other citizens are allowed by law to do."
______________________________________________________________

Not sure what they are referring to..

In any case, I suppose this is an issue whose views are best shaped by maturity and growth in ones walk with the LORD.

Sandra


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Sandra Miller

 2013/3/5 22:04Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1625


 Re:

MJ, I personally feel almost same way as your friend feels.

Quote:

They believe if one citizen has the legal right to do something then it should be allowed for all because we are talking about a secular law being applied to the countries citizens equally.



I do not believe that as a citizen we should be given right to do what we pleases. But I believe we cannot restrict anyone based on morality.

My point is has God given man freewill? Yes he has. If God wanted man not to sin at all then he could have easily removed the freewill or if God wanted to control everyone by forcing his law then also he could have easily done that. For example everytime a man lusts with his eyes he loses 25% of his eyesight. I mean God could have designed the earth such a way that the moment you sin you get its punishment. But God did not make it so. Then why do we need to restrict the free will of man by imposing moral laws which are way below God's standard?

God wants us to obey him out of love and not out of compulsion. A love that comes as a response to his amazing love. We cannot bring this obedience in human way.

I personally believe all these states that are not approving Gay marriage is only momentary thing. It will soon be applied in all states. US cannot invite people of all faith and impose Christian way of life on them. It will not work that way.

But there will be a day when Jesus will rule over us in new heaven and new earth. Let us live our life eagerly waiting for that day. Till then when we hear news of degrading state laws, we can be assured that the judgment is nearing and take heed to guard ourself. I am not against preaching against these sins or praying against them. If God calls me then I am willing to preach against the sins in this society.


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Sreeram

 2013/3/5 22:05Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Greetings Ginnyrose
I liked your analogy to anger and why we have laws protecting others against harm.

I feel like in some ways I am not fully expressing this persons heart in this matter probably because I am not sure I understand it myself. I have talked with them again and was assured this person does not support the gay lifestyle and see it as sin but they do believe that under the secular rule of law if one citizen is allowed to be married and have that marriage legally recognized then that same privilege should be allowed to all the countries citizens??
In the end we agreed to disagree to pray more on the topic and talk again as the LORD leads. I am glad to say there were no hurt or upset feelings and this person is willing to listen so I will continue to pray.

Thank you again

God Bless
mj

 2013/3/6 8:40Profile
MaryJane
Member



Joined: 2006/7/31
Posts: 3057


 Re:

Greetings Sree

you wrote:I personally believe all these states that are not approving Gay marriage is only momentary thing. It will soon be applied in all states. US cannot invite people of all faith and impose Christian way of life on them. It will not work that way.

___________

Here is my question do you see marriage as "only" a christian way of life? There are many other countries and cultures that marry and those marriages are between a man and woman but the ruling religion is Muslim and not Christianity. So is marriage only a christian way of life or no? This is what I am trying to understand. Marriage has always been between members of the opposite sex through out history as far as I know so why should that change now do? What are your thoughts on this? :)

Thank you for taking from your time to help me wade through this topic. It has been one of many on my heart because I care about this other person and do not want to see them compromise or harden their heart toward sin.

God bless you
mj

 2013/3/6 8:57Profile
Sree
Member



Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1625


 Re:

Quote:

This is what I am trying to understand. Marriage has always been between members of the opposite sex through out history as far as I know so why should that change now do? What are your thoughts on this? :)



I agree on this. If you see Matthew 19, Jesus again emphasis the fact that God made man and women and united them into one flesh. The purpose is to make Godly children. Gay marriage is definitely degrading the value of marriage.

Even in pagan country like India they respect marriage and marital rape is not considered as a crime!!!

The point I am trying to make is we cannot force this on people. But one thing I am really concerned is letting these gay people adopt and raise up children. I believe they should not be given this right. Because Gay people are basically sexually perverse people and giving a young baby in their hand is like feeding a baby to lion. Also the baby is devoid of either father or mother's love because it is given in adoption to gay parents. This is a big mistake.


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Sreeram

 2013/3/6 10:56Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2707
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: Where does God stand on marriage?

Quote:
laws on that this person said that the laws are there to protect each persons right to life so they have laws in place but a person choosing to live in homosexuality, premarital sin, adultery or any other sin that does not harm others is not up to us to regulate.



There is much I would like to say concerning this topic but I will restrict my thoughts to this one point that I have quoted above.

It is simply not true that those sins do not harm others. Take homosexuality for example; I have read statistics that homosexuals in North America have an average lifespan that is seven years shorter than heterosexuals. So they harm themselves and cause their loved ones untimely sorrow. There is an additional burden on the health care system as well, an economic burden that all must bear. But far beyond that, as with all sin, it hurts God when we rebel against Him and deny His love; that's hurting another isn't it?

In Christ,

Ron


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Ron Halverson

 2013/3/6 20:18Profile





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