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Discussion Forum : General Topics : The new doctrine of Reckoning yourself dead to sin

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 Re:

Hi Untobabes,

When one takes a sentence or a text out of context, one comes up with a pretext. Its almost as if you did not read the whole of my post and just took one sentence out of context. The backdrop to my sentence was a broken and a contrite heart. It was of the necessity of repentance and a knowledge that one was out of fellowship with God, an agony for any Christian. I was not talking about salvation, for to reckon is not given to un beleivers but to believers. We must strive to see look for the best in others, not merely a point for contention. God bless you sister...........bro Frank

PS as soon as one is convicted of sin, one should deal with it straight away, not languish in defeat and condemnation. The only way to achieve that is to come to Jesus.

 2013/3/1 15:11
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1677


 Re: The new doctrine of Reckoning yourself dead to sin

I agree with the poster. I used to see the same spirit in certain posters here as I do not see such spirit in my Church. One of the strong advocate of such theology in SI died recently. He also did not believe in Repentance. No matter how many scriptural proof you give him. Once I found out that there is no respect for scripture in a person who calls himself Christian then I stop discussing theology with them. Because what they have is imagination and not theology.

Counting one self dead to Sin is way higher standard than living a life of continuous repentance. To be dead to sin means to be dead in flesh and not to entertain the desires of Flesh. A dead man never gets puffed up no matter how much you appreciate him in his funeral. Also a dead man never gets angry at his brother no matter what his brother does to him in his funeral or says about him in his funeral. If one satisfies these requirements of being a dead man while being alive in Flesh then he is counted as dead to Sin in flesh.

Jesus lived like that and that is why he was able to say, 'anything said against the son of man will be forgiven'. People called him devil but he did not get angry. Evil Spirits called him Son of God, he did not get puffed up. True sign of being dead to Sin.


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Sreeram

 2013/3/1 15:21Profile
UntoBabes
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Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1031
Oregon

 Re:

Brother Frank,

I am sorry if i took what you said out of context. It was not my intent.

However, the point is this, be it for an unbeliever or a believer, when under conviction of sin, one must deal with it directly, and immediatly as you have said, but one also aught not go to anyone but God to recieve relief, and sometimes God will not grant the relief right away in order to show the seriousness of considering the blood by which the believer was sanctified an unclean thing and mingling with sin .
these cliches that people use such as look to Christ or deciding it is the devil and not the Spirit can cause much harm and give false comfort.

we can say " Look to Christ" until our eyes pop out but until Christ himself reveals Himself, any other comfort obtained is false, and sends people to hell.


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Fifi

 2013/3/1 15:29Profile
UntoBabes
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Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1031
Oregon

 Re:

Fully agree with Sree.


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Fifi

 2013/3/1 15:31Profile
murrcolr
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Joined: 2007/4/25
Posts: 1529
Scotland, UK

 Re:

You turn to God (repentance) and by faith you believe in Jesus Christ, but as you continue on you’ll soon find out that you’re still prone to sin.

If you bring it up for discussion the sin that remains in a Christian your told “reckon yourselves dead to sin” which in essence is believe that you br dead to sin, but isn’t this just another form of easy believism? We must be careful to distinguish lazy "acceptance" from the real work of God.

The fact is that your our lives are a lives that are living unto holiness, if we are honest our lives are tainted with self, sin and defeat.

So as a Christian the Spirit leads you to a deeper place where the light of God focuses on the sin that dwells deep within you. The sin within is too much a part of our natures to come to our own attention, the truth is that sin within you will deceives you to get you to believe it’s you that wants to sin and will seek to keep you in bondage and condemnation BUT IT’S NOT YOU IT SIN. God can, does and will reveal to your condition and he can set you free, just ask him get before him fast and pray the answer will soon come..

When he answers we must turn to God in repentance, seeing our true condition when he reveals it to you and cry out to him as we confess, forsake, and refuse to accept the sin and selfish life and reckon it crucified. We must insist he does the work and not rest content with an easy doctrine of self-crucifixion by reckoning alone.


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Colin Murray

 2013/3/1 15:39Profile
InTheLight
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Joined: 2003/7/31
Posts: 2717
Phoenix, Arizona USA

 Re: The new doctrine of Reckoning yourself dead to sin

Perhaps some input from Watchman Nee's The Normal Christian Life will be helpful; below is a snipet from chapter 4 titled The Path of Progress:Reckoning. I would suggest reading the entire book if you have not done so but particularly the four chapters covering the Path of Progress: Knowing, Reckoning, Walking in the Spirit, and Bearing the Cross.

We now come to a matter on which there has been some confusion of thought among the Lord’s children. It concerns what follows this knowledge. Note again first of all the wording of Romans 6:6: “Knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him”. The tense of the verb is most precious for it puts the event right back there in the past. It is final, once-for-all. The thing has been done and cannot be undone. Our old man has been crucified once and for ever, and he can never be un-crucified. This is what we need to know.
Then, when we know this, what follows? Look again at our passage. The next command is in verse 11: “Even so reckon ye also yourselves to be dead unto sin”. This, clearly, is the natural sequel to verse 6. Read them together: ‘Knowing that our old man was crucified, ... reckon ye yourselves to be dead’. That is the order. When we know that our old man has been crucified with Christ, then the next step is to reckon it so.
Unfortunately, in presenting the truth of our union with Christ the emphasis has too often been placed upon this second matter of reckoning ourselves to be dead, as though that were the starting point, whereas it should rather be upon knowing ourselves to be dead. God’s Word makes it clear that ‘knowing’ is to precede ‘reckoning’. “Knowing this... reckon.” The sequence is most important. Our reckoning must be based on knowledge of divinely revealed fact, for otherwise faith has no foundation on which to rest. When we know, then we reckon spontaneously.


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Ron Halverson

 2013/3/1 15:46Profile
UntoBabes
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Joined: 2010/8/24
Posts: 1031
Oregon

 Re:


Brother bear,
Were you addressing your post to me.
I am not sure what you understand by the slough of despond, brother, but it is definitly something different from what Bunyan meant by it which is wondering out od the way and falling into some sin or unbelief.

Anyone who has spiritual expeience at all knows the difference between unbelief and conviction of sin. while the first is lack of faith that can be due to pride of trusting in one' own righteousness, the other is something the Lord allows in order to reveal the darkness and vileness of sin in order that Christ shines the brightest, and faith graps hold of Him. It is the breaking of self that ushers Christ in, the going down that must take place before one comes up.

In the stories you gave about belief without conviction, while I do not understand all the ways of God, there are things revealed to us in the Scriptures by which we may be able to descern how some of these things work.

Now, you say you read or hear the Bible all the time, let me ask you this.
Why was it so easy for the gentile, sinners to come to Christ more than the high rank social elite?



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Fifi

 2013/3/1 15:48Profile
twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 1962
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

davidkeel:

In the first few verses of Hebrews 10, we find that the perfect sacrifice for sin, the blood of Christ, did what the blood of bulls and goats could never do. That was to actually purge our sins. And the writer makes a very vivid statement. He says that the worshippers, once purged, should have no more conscience of sins. The sins are not simply covered, but they are gone. Paul says something very similar in Romans 6. He says that we are dead to sin. And, just like Christ died once and now lives unto God, we should also reckon that we died to sin once and now live unto God. Paul talks extensively about the fact that we are now considered righteous through the blood of Christ.

So, I know that my sin has been dealt with, that I am forgiven, and what is more, I have been made the righteousness of God in Him (2 Cor. 5). I have an awareness that I am no longer in sin. I am dead to sin. And how could I, who am righteous, who am dead to sin, live any longer therein. In fact, there are times when I am tempted that I have the thought, "Why would I do that? I am righteous. Does a righteous man do that? I am dead to that."

That in no way negates or does away with repentance. To repent means, literally, to turn and go the other way. It is a turning from sin. I realize that I have often had sorrow over sin, and that sorrow led me to cry out to God for forgiveness, and then to turn from the thing that I did. But the realization of my sin (enlightenment and conviction), and the sorrow for my sin (which is sometimes, not always, rooted more in emotion than in anything else)are neither one repentance. It is the turning from sin that is repentance. So considering myself dead to sin actually helps to bring about repentance in my life.

There have been times when I sinned, was convicted of it, and had great emotional grief over the sin. There have been times when I sinned, and upon realizing that I had done so simply said, "God, that was sin. I thank You that You have forgiven me, and I receive Your forgiveness, and I choose to turn from that thing. I repent." There was great emotion the first time, there was no emotion the second. Yet, in both cases there was a Godly sorrow that was unto repentance.

I find that my realization of righteousness and of the fact that I am dead to sin (My "dead reckoning" if you will) is the very thing that gives me power over sin. I am recalling the scripture in Titus that says that it is the grace of God that teaches us to deny unGodly lusts so that we might live soberly and righteously in this present world.


By the way, reckoning is not trying to gin up something that is not true. It is an accounting of something that you actually possess.


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Travis

 2013/3/1 15:49Profile
twayneb
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Joined: 2009/4/5
Posts: 1962
Joplin, Missouri

 Re:

I might add as well that there is a distinction to be made between salvation and the walk of a believer in my opinion. I too am very concerned when we simply have sinners repeat words and then assure them that their ticket is punched and all is well. We know that no one comes to the Father except he be called. Without the enlightenment of a sinful condition and of God's grace, and without a conviction of sin, it is impossible to come to God. So I think there are times when an unbeliever can repeat a prayer and not be born again.

But, I think, if I am not mistaken, that the context of the discussion is post-salvation. In that case, sins are dealt with and we have been born again. In that case our reckoning is the realization of something that is already reality.


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Travis

 2013/3/1 15:55Profile
Sree
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Joined: 2011/8/20
Posts: 1677


 Re:

Quote:

Counting one self dead to Sin is way higher standard than living a life of continuous repentance. To be dead to sin means to be dead in flesh and not to entertain the desires of Flesh. A dead man never gets puffed up no matter how much you appreciate him in his funeral. Also a dead man never gets angry at his brother no matter what his brother does to him in his funeral or says about him in his funeral. If one satisfies these requirements of being a dead man while being alive in Flesh then he is counted as dead to Sin in flesh.

Jesus lived like that and that is why he was able to say, 'anything said against the son of man will be forgiven'. People called him devil but he did not get angry. Evil Spirits called him Son of God, he did not get puffed up. True sign of being dead to Sin.



I am quoting my own post here. I want to add that I have frankly not reached the stage of saying that I am totally dead to sin. But I am taking sincere effort by God's grace to count myself dead to sin following the example of Jesus.

I felt the need to say this because I do not want to give an impression that I have achieved that stage.


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Sreeram

 2013/3/1 16:00Profile





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