SermonIndex Audio Sermons
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival.
Looking for free sermon messages?
Sermon Podcast | Sermons | About

Free Christian Book
Principles For The Gathering of Believers Under the Headship of Jesus Christ


Login

Nickname

Password


Main Menu
· Home
· About Us
· Audio Sermons
    by Speaker
    by Topic
    by Scripture
    by Podcast
· Text Sermons
    Christian Books
    Online Bibles
· Video Sermons
· Vintage Images
· Discussion Forum
· Help Support
· Contact Us


Share SI with others - Add a website link or image banner on your website or blog.

Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : HEY PHARISEES PART DEUX!

Print Thread (PDF)

Goto page ( 1 | 2 Next Page )
PosterThread
Solomon101
Member



Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 463
Minnesota

 HEY PHARISEES PART DEUX!

HEY PHARISEES PART DEUX!

Large crowds followed him, and he healed them there. And Pharisees came up to him and tested him by asking, “Is it lawful to divorce one's wife for any cause?” Matt 19:2-3 ESV

That is the religious mentality: "Forget about the fact that none of us have ever seen such a display of mercy and compassion in our lives. Forget about the crowds being healed. Instead, focus only on one thing only: what is Jesus doctrinal position on a controversial side issue? That's what we care about!"

Does it sound extreme? It is, but it is extremely common! The Spirit falls dramatically on an entire congregation, hundreds are touched and transformed, and the "religious" believers get offended. Why? Because their sacred traditions are violated. The preacher didn't use the King James Bible (or, in some circles his sin was that he did use the King James). People jumped, or fell over when prayed for, or laughed, or cried, or shook like a leaf, or were to loud, or to quiet. The service lasted for five hours, or the sermon lasted five minutes. The sick were prayed for before the message (or, maybe there wasn't even a message which offended others). "That's not how we do it in our church!"

You would think we would have more sense. In one group, men and women are judged for wearing suits and dresses to the meeting. In another group, they are judged for coming in jeans and sneakers. One group is judged for being very neat, clean shaven and straight laced. Another group is judged for wearing jeans and leather while having tattoos with piercings. If the Spirit of God happens to move in one of the groups that doesn't adhere to our dress code..."It can't be God," we say. "The pastor wasn't wearing a tie." Or, "the pastor was wearing a tie." We can make all these foolish judgements subconsciously, not realizing for a moment that is why we reject their ministries and very likely a deliverance for our lives.

thoughts inspired by Michael Brown

 2013/2/19 22:24Profile
sermonindex
Moderator



Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 30879
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re: HEY PHARISEES PART DEUX!

Quote:
People jumped, or fell over when prayed for, or laughed, or cried, or shook like a leaf, or were to loud, or to quiet. The service lasted for five hours, or the sermon lasted five minutes. The sick were prayed for before the message (or, maybe there wasn't even a message which offended others). "That's not how we do it in our church!"



The blessing of being a Christian 2000 years after the cross of Christ is that we have the Spirit of God given to us from the Lord and also the Holy Scriptures preserved for us. So we have an accurate record of the Church, of the will of God for us. So we can be assured that God works in-line with His truth and that what happened in the book of Acts is available to us today.

It is not a religious spirit therefore to be discerning and not accept everything that is done in the Name of Christ but apart from the will of God or the truth of God. Modern meetings where there are extra-biblical manifestations, teaching emphasizing "receiving a blessing from God" would have seemed repugnant to the early Apostles. We are in a culture of what I can receive from God and not that we gather as God's saints to worship and consider this wonderful Lord we serve and who bought us with a great price.

Christ died to redeem us so we could walk as the Church, a holy people on this earth. Not so we could seek to be healed and to seek to heal others physically. Such things are a by-product of Christianity and not the prime-product.

There surely are in every generation clever religious men who come with their religions questions that seem very holy. But this does not mean that to love God's word, His truth and seek to know it so that we are not decieved in end-times deceptions is not wise. We must read chapters like Matthew 24 and 2 Thessalonians 2 and 2 Peter 3. A great deception is coming up the Church and it comes as a spirit that tries to be a more free christianity, a loving christianity, a christianity that heals and helps. But any christianity that does not give victory over sin, a bearing of the cross and denying of all the world, our lusts and flesh is not a christianity from God.

Only those who love the truth will endure what is coming.


_________________
SermonIndex.net Moderator - brother Greg

"We out-thought the Lord here in America. We told His Spirit that we can do it all in our own cleverness or we told Him that He could not work that way anymore. Either way, we seem to have lost Him here in America. He took His fire to China." - anonymous

 2013/2/19 22:52Profile
sermonindex
Moderator



Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 30879
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

To me these videos speak very prophetically to this:

The Love Of The Truth by Art Katz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKhyjDdMWOE

A Critique Of The Prophetic Movement by Art Katz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loaN4RhU1rg


_________________
SermonIndex.net Moderator - brother Greg

"We out-thought the Lord here in America. We told His Spirit that we can do it all in our own cleverness or we told Him that He could not work that way anymore. Either way, we seem to have lost Him here in America. He took His fire to China." - anonymous

 2013/2/19 22:53Profile
ZekeO
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 928
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re:

Quote:
The Love Of The Truth by Art Katz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKhyjDdMWOE

A Critique Of The Prophetic Movement by Art Katz
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=loaN4RhU1rg



Prepare to get your socks blown off, one of my very most favourite favourite speakers.


_________________
Zeke

...do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance? Romans 2:4

 2013/2/19 22:58Profile
Oracio
Member



Joined: 2007/6/26
Posts: 849
Long Beach CA USA

 Re:

"Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world."-1John4:1

"Test all things; hold fast what is good. 22 Abstain from every form of evil."-1Thess.5:21-22

"For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into apostles of Christ. 14 And no wonder! For Satan himself transforms himself into an angel of light. 15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also transform themselves into ministers of righteousness, whose end will be according to their works."-2Cor.11:13-15

It has always been the way of satan to get you to fall for his clever deceptions which are masqueraded as being from God. The devil will whisper to you, "just believe, don't try to question it, be careful not to judge the man of God lest you touch God's anointed."

As a newer believer many a time I fell for that trick to my own demise. It wasn't until I started doing what God said in His Word to do, which test all things, that I was set free from much deception, praise be to God! May He continue to lead His people into all truth by His Spirit of truth through His incorruptible Word, in Jesus mighty name amen!


_________________

 2013/2/20 0:01Profile
ginnyrose
Member



Joined: 2004/7/7
Posts: 6471
Mississippi

 Re: HEY PHARISEES PART DEUX!

For some reason I suspect Michael Brown has a greater problem then what he is indicating in this article. It just does not ring true.


_________________
“If you wish to know God, you must know His Word. If you wish to perceive His power, you must see how He works by His Word. If you wish to know His purpose before it comes to pass, you can only discover it by His Word.” (Charles Spurgeon)

 2013/2/20 18:52Profile
sermonindex
Moderator



Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 30879
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Sister,

The above article was not written by Michael brown, the brother just took ideas from it as he wrote at the end: "thoughts inspired by Michael Brown"

I just thought it would be worth clarifying that.


_________________
SermonIndex.net Moderator - brother Greg

"We out-thought the Lord here in America. We told His Spirit that we can do it all in our own cleverness or we told Him that He could not work that way anymore. Either way, we seem to have lost Him here in America. He took His fire to China." - anonymous

 2013/2/20 19:04Profile
Solomon101
Member



Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 463
Minnesota

 Re:

Hi Greg,

You posted,

Quote:
Modern meetings where there are extra-biblical manifestations,



I am taking it that you are only referencing this part of the original post
Quote:
People jumped, or fell over when prayed for, or laughed, or cried, or shook like a leaf, or were to loud, or to quiet. The service lasted for five hours, or the sermon lasted five minutes. The sick were prayed for before the message (or, maybe there wasn't even a message which offended others). "That's not how we do it in our church!"



Forgive me if I am mistaken about the portion you were referencing. However, I will respond with the understanding that is it.

Just a couple of things-

1. I actually can show you places in scripture where all of these things happened to people. They are not "extra Biblical" in that sense at all. My point was that some people will reject ministry simply because someone might exhibit these actions. There is nothing whatsoever in scripture that indicates people may not on some occasions react this way when encountering the presence of The True Living God. They may not... but they may. God has not said in His Word that they definitely would or wouldn't.

2. There is a infinite difference in "extra Biblical" and "anti Biblical". ANTI Biblical is to go against the clear teaching and meaning of scripture. EXTRA Biblical just simply means that the Bible doesn't say anything about it. Chinese food, Toyota trucks, television, the internet, and even the Sermon Index website are all "EXTRA Biblical". Obviously just because something is extra Biblical in no way means it is "ANTI Biblical". The things I mentioned in the original post are no more anti Biblical than this website. Actually they aren't really EXTRA Biblical either as the scripture does contain them. However, I think everyone can see the clear difference in being "EXTRA or ANTI" Biblical.

3. There is only one real way to judge things of that nature. You must see who gets glory from it and what fruit is born from it. If The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit ultimately get glory from it then it is from a good source. If the fruit born out in the persons life is godliness, Christlikeness, a passion for reaching the lost, experiencing close encounters and communion with The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit then that is obviously good and Godly fruit. By Jesus own words that is a "good tree". In fact these are the exact ways John Wesley said to judge things in his journal. Jonathon Edwards also pretty much made the same exact point.

God forbid that anyone miss their day of visitation simply because they are uptight that someone was leaping (or whatever) in church. God also forbid that folks miss their day of visitation because they were upset that folks weren't leaping in church. Both sides of that coin are Phariseeism.

Again, God forbid that people miss His moving by judging a group for being very neat, clean shaven and straight laced. May he also give wisdom so that no one misses His desire by judging folks for wearing jeans and leather while having tattoos with piercings. Both sides of that coin are equally Pharisaical.

 2013/2/20 20:35Profile
sermonindex
Moderator



Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 30879
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
God forbid that anyone miss their day of visitation simply because they are uptight that someone was leaping (or whatever) in church.



Where in Scripture does it speak of the great importance of the day of vistation? And how does this glorify the risen Son of God, Jesus Christ? And obedience to Him as His disciples?


_________________
SermonIndex.net Moderator - brother Greg

"We out-thought the Lord here in America. We told His Spirit that we can do it all in our own cleverness or we told Him that He could not work that way anymore. Either way, we seem to have lost Him here in America. He took His fire to China." - anonymous

 2013/2/20 20:38Profile
Solomon101
Member



Joined: 2008/4/1
Posts: 463
Minnesota

 Re:

It was asked

Quote:
Where in Scripture does it speak of the great importance of the day of vistation? And how does this glorify the risen Son of God, Jesus Christ? And obedience to Him as His disciples?



It seems to me that applies in a couple of ways.

1. Any time a person has a chance to embrace a closeness with The Holy Spirit it is an important day and time of visitation. This of course applies to us on a personal level but is vital none the less. To experience His presence... I mean actually tangibly experience His presence... to know, sense, and feel Him as real and actual as the heat from a roaring fire, a strong wind blowing across our face, or the blinding brightness of looking into the noonday sun, is a pearl of great price that we would be fools to miss. Much as Moses refused to go unless God's presence went with Him so shall I endeavor to do. We would be wise to hunger and thirst for Him in such ways that He desires to reveal Himself to us, His beloved.

2. A second way to understand the "day of visitation" is one in which God shows up strongly in a tangible way to bring hope, help, healing, deliverance, etc. at an appointed time

A few Biblical examples that may help to paint the picture might include

- The night the death angel passed over Egypt
- The day Lazarus was raised from the dead
- The day the woman with the issue of blood was healed
- The day Jairus daughter was raised from the dead
- The day Jesus cast the legion of demons out of the Gadarene demoniac
- The day the prodical son returned to the Father's house.
- The day Zachaeus was called out of the tree by Jesus
- The day the 10 lepers were healed
- The day the Syrophonecian woman's daughter was freed from demon possession
- The day Jesus healed the blind man in Bethsaida
- The day Jesus cast the demon out that threw the boy to the ground foaming at the mouth
- The day of Pentecost
- The day the crippled man was healed at the Beautiful Gate
- The day the Apostle Paul met Christ on the Damascus road
- The night Paul had the vision of the Macedonian man

These were massively important days of visitation to the people involved!

Obviously there are almost limitless times that are examples from scripture and experience. I think anyone can see that on any of these days it was a day of incredible visitation for the people involved. There are days marked in God's calendar that He will visit individuals if they will let Him. There are days in which God will show up strongly in a tangible ways to bring hope, help, healing, deliverance, and supernatural provision to those who will allow Him to.

Unfortunately many believers have been talked out of receiving from God and end up not recognizing their day of intimacy with Him or deliverance and visitation from God.


And when he drew near and saw the city, he wept over it, saying, “Would that you, even you, had known on this day the things that make for peace! But now they are hidden from your eyes. For the days will come upon you, when your enemies will set up a barricade around you and surround you and hem you in on every side and tear you down to the ground, you and your children within you. And they will not leave one stone upon another in you, BECAUSE YOU DID NOT KNOW YOUR TIME OF VISITATION” Luke 19:41-44 ESV , Caps mine

Many Christians are in the same boat. The revelation of God's visitation is also "hid from their eyes". Their spiritual enemy also sets up barriers and barricades to them in every arena of life. They lose their kids because they have no spiritual power on tap. And why..because they did not recognize God's moving and actions. They did not know when He came to deliver them so they miss it.

That was the point of the post. Don't miss the moving and activity of God simply because of whether a person wears a suit or jeans. Whether they are clean shaven or have a beard. Whether they have a tattoo or don't. Whether they jump, dance, and sing or sit quietly in their seat. Whether they shake like a leaf in God's presence or kneel face down and are afraid to lift their eyes to His holiness. Those are all just outward things that mean little to nothing! It is a great tragedy when people are not open to a "day of visitation" from the Lord simply because they are prejudiced and Pharisaical in their hearts.

Ironically, I know some "Pharisaically" inclined people that would not receive from you because you have a beard! That is their "pharisee" issue. For others it is clothing, jewelry, tattoos, outward response to God's presence, etc.

In the original post I stated,
Quote:
That is the religious mentality: "Forget about the fact that none of us have ever seen such a display of mercy and compassion in our lives. Forget about the crowds being healed. Instead, focus only on one thing only: what is Jesus doctrinal position on a controversial side issue? That's what we care about!"



Isn't that exactly what is happening here with so much concern over a person leaping, shouting, or whatever?

 2013/2/20 21:28Profile





©2002-2014 SermonIndex.net Audio Sermons | Google+
Promoting Genuine Biblical Revival. | Privacy Policy