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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Why John Calvin wrote his Institues

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proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

John Calvin Treatise against the anabaptist and against the libertines translated by Benjamin Wirt Farley p.30

What Calvin said about the anabaptist
/ Something of Calvins appraisal of his opponents is tellingly revealed in his pejorative epithets. consider this list: "fanatics,ignorant,deluded,poor dreamers,poor fools,foolish men,scatterbrains,without reason,unreasonable,insane,harebrained,obstinate,poor ignoramuses..../


/If Calvins epithets seem uncharitable,one ought to note that he refrains from calling them Hereticks,blasphemers,scoundrels,wretches,mad dogs or asses as he will call the Libertines./


P.51 speaking of Baptism and those that practice Believers Baptism Calvin Says

/Therefore, whoever wants to make the grace of God less toward us and our children than it was toward the Jewish people inflicts a great injustice on Jesus Christ and blasphemes Him./

"There is nothing more slippery or loose than the tongue."
J.C.

 2013/2/13 13:29Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Calvins lack of compasion toward the martyrdom of Michael Sattler

John Calvin Treatise against the anabaptist and against the libertines translated by Benjamin Wirt Farley p.157
John Calvin wrote

// Now in order to give a favorable pretext to their doctrine, they have published along with their resolution the history of the Death of a certain Michael (footnote says Sattler)an accomplice and member of their sect.In fact ,they are in the habit of making a powerful defense out of the fact that some have been killed for holding views which would not retract,although if they had they might have escaped death and ransomed their life. Indeed,it is an effective means of authorizing a doctrine for a man to abandon his life courageously and freely in order to confirm his belief. For when we are told what the prophets,apostles,and other martyrs endured in order to maintain the truth of Gode,we are so much the more strengthened to adhere to the faith we hold,which they sealed by their blood.
I acknowledge,therefore,that we must not vilify the death of God's servants,since their courage and constancy is no small aid in supporting our weakness. But since we can be thoroughly deceived by this unless we have another criterion,we must return to the foundation without which we should be unable to make sound judgments or be certain about the matter.
Certainly a mans death, whoever he might be,is never so precious that it can or ought to prejudice Gods truth in any thing, or be so beneficial as to approve of erroneous and perverse doctrines.Therefore let us hold to this:that although a sound and solid doctrine,being founded on reason,is confirmed later by the death of its adherents and confessors by whom it is maintained,nevertheless,the death of the whole world cannot prove a lie.
Indeed what seperates the martyrs of God from the devil's deciples is that the martyrs die for a righteous cause. Therefore in the same way that it is laudable and courageous to suffer death when necessity calls for it in order to bear witness to the truth,so also it is insane obstinancy to suffer for a wicked cause.So much so that whoever suffers for it the most is all the more reprimanded. In fact, when we let ourselves be carried away by this pretext, we lose complete judgment and esteem.//

 2013/2/13 13:51Profile
Josef83
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Joined: 2010/8/21
Posts: 111
Sweden

 re:

As I think it was from some fast researches was that Calvin reformed whole geneva he suggested a more godly society to the goverment of Geneva. Some of the rules he suggested was no sexual immorality, no sinfull songs etc.
He wanted a godly city. And Geneva accepted this.
But theese people called the Libertines where people objecting this and hated Calvin for it. And made life hard for him.
Geneva used the biblical principle from Romans chapter 13 of death penalty. So I guess thats why Calvin agreed to put them to death. Thats my view of it all.



 2013/2/13 14:06Profile
proudpapa
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Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re: Josef83

Hi Josef83

Josef83 wrote ///He wanted a godly city. And Geneva accepted this.
But theese people called the Libertines where people objecting this and hated Calvin for it. And made life hard for him.
Geneva used the biblical principle from Romans chapter 13 of death penalty. So I guess thats why Calvin agreed to put them to death. Thats my view of it all.///

This is the fall of the reformers, they saw Christianity as a geographical, in which all the population had to conform to Christodom (we do not see such an example with in the new testament sample) and also it did not, and does not work. We need seperation of Church and State but the Reformers where so indoctrinated into Augustinian Catholisism that they felt that Christodom should by force take over a territory.

Many of the exact things that the reformers critizised the Catholic Church for early on, They themselves copied and did like wise when they started becomming men of power.


 2013/2/13 14:16Profile
rnieman
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Joined: 2008/10/24
Posts: 146


 Re:

 2013/2/13 16:39Profile
SkepticGuy
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Joined: 2012/8/8
Posts: 259


 Re:

rnieman, i think u said it all brother!

 2013/2/14 9:03Profile





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