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Discussion Forum : General Topics : Hyper-Grace The Great Deception of the 21st Century by Dr Michael Brown

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Mangan
Member



Joined: 2007/4/19
Posts: 161
Sweden (Northern Europe)

 Hyper-Grace The Great Deception of the 21st Century by Dr Michael Brown

You must check this out:
http://vimeo.com/59298991


Sincerely Magnus Nordlund


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Magnus Nordlund

 2013/2/11 17:20Profile
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5235
NC, USA

 Re: Hyper-Grace The Great Deception of the 21st Century by Dr Michael Brown

this is excellent.


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Todd

 2013/2/11 17:54Profile









 Re: Hyper-Grace The Great Deception of the 21st Century by Dr Michael Brown

One thing which comes to me as I listen to this message is the way the brother differentiates between a false grace which essentially deceives the recipient into believing that they are saved but are not and thus leads to eternal destruction, and what he calls "hyper-grace" which is presented as exaggerated grace and is summed up in the idea that a person is taught that all their past, present and future sins are forgiven and therefore they don't need to confess their sins anymore.

Although I haven't listened to the whole message yet I really needed to get down my thoughts on what comes to my heart and mind regarding this subject. I would be interested to know what you yourself think about what I share here and how you think it stands up as a valid way to think.

Without making scriptural references, other than the one which the brother made from 2 Timothy 4:1-2 I would make the following points.

"I charge thee in the sight of God, and of Christ Jesus, who shall judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be urgent in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort, with all long suffering and teaching."

As this was a foundational passage used for the message I will use it to say this:

The conclusion of the passage and indeed the conclusion of this age is expressed as "by His appearing and His kingdom". This is what we are all looking forwards too if we believe and this "appearing" of Christ in visibility will coincide with the "kingdoms of the earth, becoming the kingdom of our God". Most of us believe this is the 1000 year kingdom or reign of Christ which precedes the rolling up of the whole universe before the bringing in of the new heavens and the new earth. Only after the new heavens and the new earth are themselves established, after the 1000 year kingdom and the last judgement, do we read about the Father and the Lamb together with those who will spend eternity in their presence. The 1000 year kingdom, or the "kingdoms of the earth becoming the kingdom of God" are entirely presented in the context of the appearing of Christ Himself. Only then are all thing presented to the Father.

Is it possible that the difficulty which many believers face to day is a failure to comprehend that whilst the one who is born again is evermore washed in the blood of Christ before the Father, Who alone demanded the blood of Christ for the remission of sin, it is before Christ as one coming to judge the living and the dead, that we all have to face and give an account to. In short it is true before the Father in heaven that we are evermore made clean, yet before Christ we have to give an account? This is not a contradiction, rather it is a failure to truly know both the Father and the Son in such a way that it is possible to comprehend the distinction.

The reason why I am raising this is because the brother in the preaching asked the question "who when they are saved thinks I am forgiven from my past sins AND my future sins also". He then says, "no one thinks like that". The problem for me however, is that is exactly how I did think when I was saved. I had that exact thought and expressed it to the Father in the spirit with a sense of gratitude which goes beyond any words I could express now. Over the intervening years, in fact very soon thereafter, I was faced with the reality of continued sin, and the conviction of those sins, and the need to confess them. So this revelation did not cause me to take sin lightly nor to neglect to confess my sin ongoing, even daily.

Just to finish this post I would say that my understanding of what is happening today has as much to do with what God is permitting both to fulfil prophecy concerning end time apostasy, as well as to harden the hearts of those who have been saved by grace, and yet in their hearts will not seek to live a holy and sanctified life before God. It is a certainty of judgement in the day of the Lord and a being excluded from the kingdom of our Saviour for the duration of 1000 years. I also believe that there is coming a time very soon when the gospel of the kingdom will be preached once again, not the gospel of repentance and faith unto Christ, as to unbelievers, but the gospel of the kingdom to believers, "repent for the kingdom of heaven is near". Just as the disciples were told to say to Israel if they were rejected, "the kingdom of heaven has come near unto you" so I believe this same message will be preached to the churches in every place as an end time preparation and final mercy of God to His people, those who have already believed in His beloved Son.

Well I am gathering a pile of stones for anyone who wants to stone me. I will give them out freely and without bitterness.

 2013/2/11 18:30
TMK
Member



Joined: 2012/2/8
Posts: 5235
NC, USA

 Re:

Perhaps what gives people difficulty is the idea that while they may believe their future sins are forgiven (and I do believe this), there is still a standard of holiness that is undeniably taught in the NT.

As Dr. Brown says, we were saved FROM our sins. Sin no longer needs to control us. If we are saved we will live holy lives-- perhaps not 100% of the time but we should be charactarized as being holy, not making excuses for our sins by stating "I am forgiven anyway." God is not mocked. A person who believes they are saved whose attitude is that holiness is not necessary because "all my sins are forgiven" is very unlikely to be saved. That attitude is evidence of an unchanged heart.


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Todd

 2013/2/11 20:04Profile
sermonindex
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Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 36863
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re:

Quote:
The reason why I am raising this is because the brother in the preaching asked the question "who when they are saved thinks I am forgiven from my past sins AND my future sins also". He then says, "no one thinks like that". The problem for me however, is that is exactly how I did think when I was saved. I had that exact thought and expressed it to the Father in the spirit with a sense of gratitude which goes beyond any words I could express now. Over the intervening years, in fact very soon thereafter, I was faced with the reality of continued sin, and the conviction of those sins, and the need to confess them. So this revelation did not cause me to take sin lightly nor to neglect to confess my sin ongoing, even daily.



Brother, My heart agrees with you that when I was converted in my bedroom by myself that I knew I was a child of God and that I was clean before the Lord. I was not worried about sinning again. But I did sin again and when the Holy Spirit revealed this I asked for forgiveness by the blood of Christ.

There came a time when I was concerned with doing this because the blood of Christ is holy and I did not want to keep using it or calling out to the father for this. But the Holy Spirit revealed to me that I needed to call out daily to be washed clean in the blood of Christ daily. Such was a faith that was confirmed by the Lord again and again.

There is a sense when we are clean that we are forgiven of all but I feel when the Holy Spirit bring unconfessed sin to us that it is proper to confess, but there is a sense of forgiveness already for it that the Lord did die for the sin to redeem us.

Our God is merciful and it is by our abiding in His Him that allows us to be dressed in white.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2013/2/11 20:44Profile









 Brother Kelly

two things....why i love you, sight unseen.

and they might seem like frivoulous things, but they are not.

you use the word, "whilst"....i thought i was the only one that still used that word in everyday writing or speech.

that makes my heart joyous.

and then you wrote this:

Quote:
Well I am gathering a pile of stones for anyone who wants to stone me. I will give them out freely and without bitterness.



i know we're an ocean apart, but if we were in the same district....that would NOT be happening if i was near....i got too much King David blood in me. (i'm reading a biography on Golda Meir.....how i loved that dear woman)

and brother Greg, beloved.....i loved what you wrote, i feel much the same way as you and TMK....i'm not alone, thats always a good feeling....we need each other...which is the Body of Christ. (btw Greg, i'm still reading)

may the Grace and Mercy of Messiah fill you all this Day and forever, neil

 2013/2/11 22:01
sermonindex
Moderator



Joined: 2002/12/11
Posts: 36863
"Pilgrim and Sojourner." - 1 Peter 2:11

Online!
 Re: Brother Kelly


read on brother. read on. :) the time is short and we must be about the Lord's business before the day is done.


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SI Moderator - Greg Gordon

 2013/2/11 22:17Profile
ZekeO
Member



Joined: 2004/7/4
Posts: 1014
Pietermaritzburg, South Africa

 Re: Hyper-Grace The Great Deception of the 21st Century by Dr Michael Brown

Good to hear Mike Brown again, haven't listened to him much since his involvement with Brownsville, but as always he is on the money.

Its quite simple really: Paul preached the whole council of God, not just the ones that validated his message. Pretty much what Mike Brown is saying.


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Zeke Oosthuis

 2013/2/12 1:17Profile
Mangan
Member



Joined: 2007/4/19
Posts: 161
Sweden (Northern Europe)

 Re:

ZekeO! Mike is solid and a man of integrity. Is it correct of me to interpret you as negative towards the Brownsville phenomena in the 90:s?

Mike who was a close friend to the Ravenhill's is not only a bible scholar but a man passionate for true revival.

I want to encourage all at SI to listen to Dr Brown's daily radio program which you can download at http://www.lineoffireradio.com/

Today's topic is:

Dr. Brown Talks with Frank Viola About His New Jesus Book and Then Discusses Drunkenness in the House of God.

Sincerely Magnus Nordlund, Sweden





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Magnus Nordlund

 2013/2/12 11:17Profile









 Hyper grace message

Thank you LORD for the timely release of this message. God bless you for posting it here. God bless all of you, Magnus, Greg, Frank, Blaine....ALL here who care about Truth.
This came at a time when I truly needed HELP from the Sanctuary to relay this warning to those I love in the Body of Christ. May Truth permeate those who have been misled.
In Christ's Precious Name,
Sister Leslie

 2013/2/12 12:08





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