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Discussion Forum : Scriptures and Doctrine : Is Repentance Necessary for Salvation?

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 Re: Is Repentance Necessary for Salvation?

Quote:
"Most brothers n sisters(i realize I am generalizing) I thread with on SI believe in post trib, hyper persecution ,ten shekels and a shirt type Christianity.
They use in my opinion un biblical term called "cheap grace" which is the same as easy belierverism(which is the opposite of the above)to describe Christians that have still attachment to the world of a sinful nature.
What I mean is that the bible teaches being under grace or not under grace,its one or the other but no such term as cheap grace.
No I dont see them as false Christians(once they have accepted Jesus as Saviour and are indwelt with his Spirit)I do see them as "prodigal sons and daughters" that are involved wrongly with sin for a season or seasons and are Christians acting falsely.I do think that God has a "John The Baptist" type plan for these people.He doesnt give up the way we do. staff



This is precisely where my own understanding lies. The term “cheap grace” of course has to do with an attitude which is said to be the possession of many in that the many are said to have received a view of salvation which “makes light” of Christ’ sufferings and therefore produces what is then claimed to be false believers. Part of this is true, but part of it is false and I personally mostly reject the second part if this means that the church is said to be filled with false believers. Wheat and tares I accept as a latter condition of the church on the earth, so that there is such a thing as a false believer. But I reject completely that this means everyone who fails to walk by the spirit and in the spirit is a false believer. As believing and walking are distinct, though in finality joined in outworking, I reject the second part. On the other hand there is no doubt that one cannot sneak into the kingdom of heaven anymore than you can take it by force. In the end the church must be all those who are born again, else the term has no meaning at all, and the apostate church must mean those who having received the grace of God unto salvation, have fallen away from the apostles teaching, or else the term apostasy has no meaning at all. There is an unwillingness to believe in the sufficiency of grace as well as the necessity of obedience. The whole gospel and therefore the fullness of salvation must also therefore be full and include an understanding of the consequences of receiving the grace of God to believe, yet continuing to walk after the flesh. Unfortunately that too is twisted and rejected. There is no stomach for a balance on these things. When I first came on this site I shared something of this balance many times. I was completely ignored every single time without exception.

Let me ask ask a question just to demonstrate this. What does the following passage of Scripture mean? I would remind all the brethren that the passage is the New Heavens & The New Earth. Whether it is symbolic or literal what does it mean?


And the nations shall walk amidst the light thereof: and the kings of the earth bring their glory into it. And the gates thereof shall in no wise be shut by day (for there shall be no night there): and they shall bring the glory and the honour of the nations into it: and there shall in no wise enter into it anything unclean, or he that maketh an abomination and a lie: but only they that are written in the Lamb’s book of life. Revelations 21:24-27


Just to make it clear then. Kings of the earth? Real or symbolic? The glory of (kings) real or symbolic? The glory and the honour of the nations! Real or symbolic? Those entering in with the kings of the earth, i.e. the nations! Real or symbolic? Those people who’s names are not written in the Lamb’s Book of Life. Real or symbolic. All symbolic, all false or else all real. You choose.

Just in case it seems a simple matter to describe this scene of the future New Heavens and the Future New Earth and the Future New Jerusalem which is physically measured by the measure of angels and men, as a distinction between those who's names were found to have NOT been written in the Book of Life, they are already explained in these preceding verses and they already have a part at this time of writing in the lake of fire.


And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death. Revelation 21:5-8.

I have no doubt that there will be a way to explain all of this away as a symbolic reality, but a physical fantasy. Well we need to remember that if this is all symbolic reality and has no physical reality whatsoever, then the lake of fire and the reign of God and the Lamb are symbolic as well. In which case our faith is but vanity.

So here is the centrality of the question then! Who are the kings? Who are the nations? And who are those who’s names were NOT found written in the Lambs Book of Life? Yet who’s names were written in the Book of Life? If, as some persist, the New Jerusalem is symbolic of the future church, who are they that are outside the church and can only gain an entrance to the church and thereby to the presence of God and the Lamb, by reason of the Lamb’s Book of Life. However, if the New Jerusalem is a physical city, as is indicated by every description thereof, including its height, breadth and width, and if the gates are real physical gates, who are they who dwell with God and the Lamb forever? It isn’t possible to be both within and without even symbolically. Yet according to scripture there is a within and a without. There is a within and a without and a not going in at all. There is a seeing God and there is a not seeing God. There is a lake of fire and there is a new earth and there is a New Jerusalem also. There is a New Jerusalem outward and there is a New Jerusalem inward. There is a measure of its proportions both inward and outward and then there is the presence of God and the Lamb.

 2013/2/16 23:44









 Re: Revelation & Repentance

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat upon it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them. And I saw the dead, the great and the small, standing before the throne; and books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of the things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead that were in it; and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and Hades were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, even the lake of fire. And if any was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire. And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth are passed away; and the sea is no more. And I saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, made ready as a bride adorned for her husband. And I heard a great voice out of the throne saying, Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and he shall dwell with them, and they shall be his peoples, and God himself shall be with them, and be their God: and he shall wipe away every tear from their eyes; and death shall be no more; neither shall there be mourning, nor crying, nor pain, any more: the first things are passed away. And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. Revelation 20:11-21:5


And he that sitteth on the throne said, Behold, I make all things new. And he saith, Write: for these words are faithful and true. And he said unto me, They are come to pass. I am the Alpha and the Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely. He that overcometh shall inherit these things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son. But for the fearful, and unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and fornicators, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, their part shall be in the lake that burneth with fire and brimstone; which is the second death. Revelation 21:5-8.


And the nations shall walk amidst the light thereof: and the kings of the earth bring their glory into it. And the gates thereof shall in no wise be shut by day (for there shall be no night there): and they shall bring the glory and the honour of the nations into it: and there shall in no wise enter into it anything unclean, or he that maketh an abomination and a lie: but only they that are written in the Lamb’s book of life. Revelations 21:24-27


Not only do these passages of scripture expressly speak about the new heaven and the new earth, but they speak of the present heaven and earth “fleeing away” from the presence of Christ (20:11) The judgement which then follows is the judgement of the Great White Throne. This judgement itself follows the thousand year kingdom (20:7), in which kingdom, Christ reigns from Jerusalem and His saints reign with Him as priests and kings over the nations (11:18 & 20:4) Christ Himself reigns over all nations, but especially Israel. Given that reigning with Christ is a reward and not a right (11:18 & 20:4-6), one would have to ask how it can be that those who have reigned with Christ in His kingdom will thereafter be judged at the Great White Throne? Is it possible to reign with Christ and then to be judged? Well it may be if you believe that reigning with Christ means to reign in a natural body with a natural mind and with natural power. If reigning with Christ is a reigning in a natural body then there need not be a resurrection from the dead at Christ’ return, or a being “caught up to meet Him [Christ] in the air”, nor will there be any necessity for the angels to gather the elect “from the four winds of the earth (Mark 13:27 Rev 7:1) nor will there need to be any such supernatural occurrence because all of these things triumph over the natural man. Yet this may not mean that those who take the name of Christ will not pass through the judgement of the Great White Throne it may mean that those who take Christ’ name will not be hurt by the second death, which is the lake of fire (20:6). All who stand at this throne of final judgement will in any event be raised from the dead and therefore will have resurrected bodies regardless. For myself personally I am inclined to believe that the key to understanding all of these things lies in this original question of Oracio “Is Repentance Necessary for Salvation?”

If any man is yet an unbeliever, then let him repent unto life! If any man is yet a wayward son, then let him repent unto the kingdom! Salvation in this fuller sense therefore must be a being saved from sin and a being saved unto the kingdom, as well as the new heaven’s and the new earth. If not when can we ever have confidence that we are saved, are being saved and will be saved. Unless we settle this question of what salvation means and what we are saved from and unto what estate are we saved too, we will be tossed about alway and will not comprehend that the only meet thing for men to do is to have an attitude of continuous repentance. Repentance is the only remedy for eternity and the coming kingdom. It is the only attitude which will make confident our position before Christ, demonstrating as it does that our confidence is in Christ Himself Who died to take away our sin and the sin of the world, as well as to save us from our sin. In such an attitude we will have no confidence in our own efforts. Christ Himself is able to keep us if we have a mind to repent alway. Repentance will keep us in humility.

What ever part we have as individuals in Christ we need to learn to be satisfied with that part. Otherwise we will despise what we have been given and this will in the end lead to loss. How can a man guard and cherish that which he despises? Whatever part we have in the future kingdom of God, we will be truly blessed in it and will not in anyway be disappointed if we have learned to regard entrance therein as a thing to be fully desired in order that we might see Christ reigning over the nations and rejoice in Him. Remember what the Lord told the teacher of Israel, Nicodemus! Except a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God or enter thereinto (John 3:3-5). Being born again is the spiritual minimum for these things not the guarantee of their outcome. Nevertheless it is God’ will that we see Him in the new heavens and the new earth, in short in the New Jerusalem. It is God’ will that we will see the kingdom of His Son, and enter therein for the glory and praise of His Son. Repentance is the only remedy to satisfy God’ will for our lives. A continuous repentant heart is the fertile ground of a full salvation.

What a prospect that is.....a continuous repentant heart. Imagine how difficult it is to have such an attitude. Where would one get the ability and knowledge from to hold such a way of thinking? It is easy to hold to such a mind for an hour or perhaps even a day after falling in some way or other and so not surprisingly we hear or else read brethren advising us to remove the log from our own eye. Sometimes a scripture is quoted by which we are to understand that we are being judgemental. I have to be honest however and say that over nearly three decades I have never heard anyone produce a good outcome with a person who is haughty by inferring that their own sin ought to concern them more than the sin of others. In fact almost nothing else gives rise to pride at that moment than by being told that you are judgmental and hard hearted. In view of this I would like to propose two remedies for this problem which do not require anything more than seeking the Lord Himself.

The one is to ask the Lord for a revelation of His sufferings. Not simply a picture of them in outward visibility such as thoughts about the cross. As real as the cross was Jesus Himself spurned this particular suffering and endured it without cries or outward distress. Only in the garden at the beginning of it and on the cross itself, at the very last of it, does the Lord outwardly show his suffering. Both of these times it is a crying to the Father in heaven. What I mean by a revelation of Christ sufferings is a revelation of the blasphemy as well as the contrasting wonder of Christ’ sufferings at the hands of men. Such a revelation will of necessity cause you to be broken in an instant. Thereafter you will always find such a revelation come quickly to mind. The other revelation we need is that of ourselves. Not the momentary knowledge which comes when we stumble and spurn the sufferings of Christ because we have walked in the flesh with pride or anger or some other fleshy mind. Rather an understanding of how God Himself sees and comprehends us in our natural man all the time, moment by moment. This is to comprehend a perpetual condition which we will always know until the day we are delivered from this body of sin. These two things, the revelation of Christ’ holiness and the horror of what men did to Him in the person of His own body, and the revelation that we ourselves were the cause of it and to this hour remain the cause of it, will teach us the two things we need for a simple reliance on Christ in our daily walk with Him.

Regardless as to how we first believed into Christ if we do not comprehend His holiness as well as His suffering, our flesh will make light of it because of the condition of the heart. Many brethren boast in the Lord’ suffering and death and speak so freely of their claim to forgiveness, others never having heard such things may even be saved because Christ is preached. Such is the mercy of God. Others when they speak of Christ’ suffering for sin do so in the knowledge that it is a grievous thing that they speak of and though they confess their own sins to God, do so in the knowledge that it is always a heart breaking reality of Christ Himself pressed down by obedience unto death in silence and with great mercy, which purchased their liberty to ask. In such a knowledge a repentant heart is always a cause of great joy and thankfulness. Such a heart will not fail to keep you in Him because you will always welcome repentance as a friend and companion. In the privacy and certainty of revelation of Christ Himself, pride is a poor fellow and yields alway to repentance.

 2013/2/17 14:23
Tomo07
Member



Joined: 2012/2/16
Posts: 105
Australia

 Re:

Absolutely..

Peter puts it like this.

'Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost'.
(KJV)

this applies to both pentecost, but also the indwelling presence of God or, as we put put today, being born again.

Matt 3 v 1-2

In those days came John the Baptist, preaching in the wilderness of Judaea, And saying, Repent ye, for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

& v 5-6


Then Jerusalem, all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan,went out to him and were baptized of him in the Jordan, confessing their sins. (KJV)

also Acts 17 v 28-31


28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also His offspring.’ 29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man’s devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead.” (KJV)

the list goes on and on.


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Peter

 2013/2/18 2:24Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

If repentance is given by God and Faith is given by God to believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God and Life is given by the Life of Christ in the believer, Then salvation depends upon God and His Grace which He also gives with Faith to believe.

If all is given by God, when are we to repent and what are we to repent of? The only repentance I see is turning to Christ, turning away from death and turning to Christ the Life God has birthed in us, making us son's of God. Then if we sin God is faithful and just to forgive us our sins when we humbly confess sin in our lives. Overcoming sin by the power of the risen Christ and the Holy Spirit quickening and revealing Christ in us and also revealing sin that we might confess and be cleansed from all unrighteousness.

2 Timothy 2:24-26 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; (((((if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;))))) And that they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will.

Galatians 2:16-21 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid. For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor. For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God. I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and (((((the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God,))))) who loved me, and gave himself for me. I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

I do not frustrate the Grace of God by repenting in the righteousness of the Law, for repentance has already been given me to believe and enter into the new life, Satan out and Christ in with the Father and the Holy Spirit all Three in One in me.

Now repentance flows in me unto the righteousness of Christ that now lives in me. Now as at first I believe I am a sinner, but much more now repentance takes me into the greater things of Christ and my salvation by the Holy Spirit power in me.

Hebrews 6:1-3 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.

Repentance is one of God's great gifts but it is not a requirement for The Grace of God giving Christ to those that are His which He bought and paid for on the Cross, those whom only one was lost, "Judas".

By Grace through Faith which is not of ourselves we now rejoice in our repentance which flows from the gift of God and the life of Christ through His Cross and precious blood, payment in full.

To the knowledge of the truth We may learn from this what is the actual repentance we have received, who for a time were all disobedient to God; for Paul declares that it begins with "the knowledge of the truth," "peradventure", that God give repentance to whom He wills, not by mans repentance that the understanding of man is blinded, so long as it stands out fiercely against God and his doctrine. He can only receive repentance and salvationn by the Hand of God, by His mercy and Grace through faith given to believe in the truth.

In Christ; Phillip


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Phillip

 2013/2/19 5:20Profile
wombat1
Member



Joined: 2010/12/1
Posts: 69
Melbourne

 Re: Yo dude

I like the way you see the book, or hold to the teachings in the book. I would be happy to hear you preach, so maybe you should.

Maybe get some prayer support and take gentle steps forward looking of a leading of some sort and in the meantime gather some friends and start sharing together if you are not doing so already.

You will be hated for his name sake, in the name is the character just as in the old testament. The character of God will bring persecution and from our own ranks first but keep going. I also liked your comment on the bride preparing herself, look into that.

There are others who also deserve encouragement.

Kind regards Oskar.


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Oskar Abley

 2013/3/9 8:21Profile
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1148


 Re: Is Repentance Necessary for Salvation?

Yes Oracio,

I believe Repentance is absolutely a must for salvation.

It is the Grace of God,...His Devine inffluence upon our heart,drawing us to Himself,...showing us that we are lost sinners,In need of a Saviour,...lost and undone.

Mt.3:3,(where John the Baptist came preaching)
...,Repent;for the kingdom of heaven is AT HAND,....prepare ye the WAY of The Lord. (Lord: meaning,one who is ruling in our life)
,..make His PATHS straight".... we were WALKING on a crooked path of our own choosing / our way, but now;repent,." Repent : a turning from our old way and go toward the Lord...Go in the WAY that He will led us.

( seeking the kingdom of God ) ..(what would Thou have for me to do Lord?)

Jesus said," I Am the WAY," .....which is through His Truth,..so that
we may / can have Life.....His life flowing from us.

V 7 ,But when he (John) saw the Pharisees ( Pharisees: pretenders,actors)
and the Saddusees come to the baptism,he said unto them,O generation of vipers,who hath warned you to flee from the wrath to come?
V 8,..Bring forth,therefore fruits [ befitting] [meet for] repentance.

V10 ,..And now also the axe is laid unto THE ROOT of the trees;therefore,every tree which bringth not forth GOOD FRUIT is hewn down,and cast into the fire.

(Now, in our old walk/ flesh, ,did we have good fruits? )..and when we turn
around / repent,doesn't He start working these fruits in us: ...?

Gal.5:22," But the fruit of the Spirit is love,joy,peace,long-suffering,
Gentleness,goodness,faith,meekness,self-control;...
V24,..and they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections
and lusts.

Lovingly always,
elizabert



 2013/3/9 20:50Profile
Christinyou
Member



Joined: 2005/11/2
Posts: 3710
Ca.

 Re:

Elibeth wrote

"I believe Repentance is absolutely a must for salvation."

Is this repentance pre or post the salvation of the believer being birthed by the incorruptible Seed of the Father, Jesus Christ, "Christ in you the hope of glory".

In Christ: Phillip


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Phillip

 2013/3/20 22:04Profile
proudpapa
Member



Joined: 2012/5/13
Posts: 2936


 Re:

///Is this repentance pre or post the salvation of the believer being birthed by the incorruptible Seed of the Father, Jesus Christ, "Christ in you the hope of glory".///

'I came not to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.'

repentance toward God is what initiates salvation, this repentance unto life is granted from God.

edit. for clarity

 2013/3/20 22:54Profile
Elibeth
Member



Joined: 2011/8/14
Posts: 1148


 Re:

Philip,
You ask :
" Is this repentance per or post the salvation of the believer being birthed
By the incorruptible Seed of the Father,Jesus Christ. "Christ in you,the hope of glory"

Actually I have never considered it.

But I believe in repentance in the beginning (pre) and a continual attitude of repentance.

( I do know, that the Word says," except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish" .

So, for that order,..to save us from perishing,repent must come first.

I had wrote up about coming to The Lord,in step form,...lost it one time and canceled it the next,thinking not to do that.

Sorry, I wish I could answer more satisfactory.

Sincerely,
elizabeth

 2013/3/21 23:29Profile
hulsey
Moderator



Joined: 2006/7/5
Posts: 653
Missouri

 Re:

Some people do not like to hear much of repentance; but I think it is so necessary that if I should die in the pulpit, I would desire to die preaching repentance, and if out of the pulpit I would desire to die practicing it.

~Matthew Henry~

The Christian who has stopped repenting has stopped growing.

~A. W. Pink~


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Jeremy Hulsey

 2013/3/22 1:15Profile





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